Catholic Exchange Forums Forum: Faith and Life

Catholic Exchange Forums Forum: Faith and Life http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Catholic Exchange Forums Forum: Faith and Life en Wed, 08 Oct 2008 06:28:55 +0000 fishman on "God and the Rules" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/877#post-13762 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:36:57 +0000 fishman 13762@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ well said. Catholics are to submit to whichever authority is placed in power over them in everything accept sin. This includes the authority of man. There are more then a few quotes to that effect in the bible. So , should we enforce the jim crow laws? no that would be a sin. Do we need to actively fight to overturn them? Some are more called to such things then others and to each his calling. that principle explains a lot about the church through time. From how it deals with the caste system in india, delt with slavery and the declarations against liberation theology. fishman on "Democrats & Cathoolics" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/869/page/2#post-13761 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 22:31:30 +0000 fishman 13761@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Proportionally was well explained by arch bishop ch*putz ( I can't spell his name). If , when you get to heaven, and meet the soul of an aborted child, you think that they would agree with your vote, then you are weighing the abortion issue proportionately. Weather or not you are correct about that is a different issue. Noel, a mortal sin requires full knowledge. So there are many Catholics who will commit a grave sin by voting for oboma, but because they are not well informed the sin may or may not be mortal , depending on many factors including if they intentionally avoided opportunities to find out the truth. A sin is grave regardless of the intent of the sinner. That is why joe biden has be asked by his bishop to refrain from taking communion , because the bishops believes he is obstinate in committing grave sin. It is not a judgment as to weather or not he is going to hell, because only God knows if it is mortal sin. wljewell on "God and the Rules" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/877#post-13760 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:45:15 +0000 wljewell 13760@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ To begin with, for any consideration of rules, one must differentiate between God’s rules, from revelation and depth of tradition, and merely legislated secular rules. Even as the latter holds much weight with God, some, say, like the old Jim Crow laws of the segregationist South, beg for disobedience, though the jail cell may yet beckon. The straight-and-narrow of God is the widest path of all in its openness to goodness. Sin has only one’s own narrow, self-centered range, however wide the highway for the shoulder-to-shoulder crowd on it. The path to sanctity and glory, as well, is guided by God. The sinful path is guided but by Satan, at a best that is worst. Obedience to God’s Commandments leaves one open to every form and means of faith, hope and charity, and all the virtues rising from these. Still, the relatively familiar Commandments of the Decalogue are primarily formed around prohibitions founded and footed in natural law. We have few positive Commandments, except in our relationship to God (i.e., put Him first, honor and treasure His Name, set aside the Sabbath for communion with Him). No other Commandments so demand good actions except as reparations for sinful offenses. Even honoring one’s parents has to come with a promise make it seem less ‘negative’ for effects. See Exodus 20:12 & Deuteronomy 5:16; though Leviticus 19:3 aligns parental honor with Sabbath keeping, that God’s Fatherhood have its reflection. However, by and large, the Decalogue leaves the ‘to-do’ list of goodness wide open to be singularly affected by God’s graces, and uniquely effected by each unique human child of God. It should be noted that while Jesus our Christ, and Son of God, summarized the Decalogue into Two Great Commandments, the Decalogue itself is our Father’s summary of natural law, written in my (and every) heart, spirit and mind that my (and your) will be guided. As noted, that the first three natural-law Commandments are about my own and each person’s (i.e., sinner’s) relationship with God, I do well not to treat them lightly. He might as well have told us: “Get these first three right, and the next seven are a piece of gooey cinnamon manna.” It is by God’s natural law that He gives me the yearning and need to be His, with Him and in Him. So truly needy of God am I, His very Name is to be most respectfully loved and honored. He made His day every week to have us together in that bond of which I am so needy. How can His love be any more greatly reflected than in His choice to make Himself so vital to me, even as He gives me the free-will choice not to accept my very own, and my own very, depthless need for Him? sillyfuzz on "Democrats & Cathoolics" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/869/page/2#post-13759 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:00:13 +0000 sillyfuzz 13759@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Democrats & Catholics? I don't get it. You cannot pick a party, then conform your faith to fit with that party. I am registered as an Independent b/c they would not allow me to register as a Catholic. Everyone's political affiliation should be faith and reason. michaelme on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13758 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 16:41:57 +0000 michaelme 13758@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Bhokuto: You said: <blockquote>"At my parish and on TV Mass the priests always encourage to follow the "saints" who have gone on before us. I found this to be entirely unbiblical."</blockquote> I'm sorry to say that you are wrong on two counts. The first is the simplistic belief that the Catholic Church is a Church of the Bible...it is not. We are a Church of the Word in its entirety, meaning both the Bible and the Church's Tradition as set forth, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, by the magisterium. See CCC 828: <blockquote>"By canonizing some of the faithful, i.e., by solemnly proclaiming that they practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace, the Church recognizes the power of the Spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors..."</blockquote> And secondly, the Bible itself is clear about imitation in 1 Cor. 11:1 "Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.". So the imitation of saints is not only proper from the Church's perspective but the Bible's as well. By the way...the verse immediately following teaches us to attend to those Traditions laid down by the Church and delivered by Paul. You would do well to heed your own advice and "further your knowledge." In Christ, Michael noelfitz on "Divne Mercy Jesus IS" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/876#post-13757 Mon, 06 Oct 2008 06:45:45 +0000 noelfitz 13757@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Again Warren, thank you for a brilliant uplifting post. wljewell on "Divne Mercy Jesus IS" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/876#post-13756 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:44:11 +0000 wljewell 13756@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I trust in my Savior and Lord, my Jesus and my Christ, because He is very truly ALL. Hence, as He is Love, and love is He, and as He invented ALL for us, He is ALL: mercy, truth, faith, hope, peace, joy, etc., etc. In his first leter, Saint John reflected that to know God is Love is to find the encompassment that God is ALL. If God is Love and ALL, how can He be less than such as mercy? Though, as if to highlight our modern heresy about virtue, God is decidedly NOT 'tolerant'; not to mention NOT 'multi-cultural' and/or 'diverse'. 'Patient', yes - 'prudent', too - but not tolerant. wljewell on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871/page/2#post-13755 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:35:04 +0000 wljewell 13755@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I simply will punctuate this topic with Christ's simple admonition: 'If you love Me, you will keep My Commandments' (John 14:15) and "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." (John 15:10) As sinners we do try to 'conditionalize' love as we see fit, rather than as Christ has commanded, expects of us and will use to save us in His love. For, love so conditioned is no love at all. wljewell on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13754 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:15:09 +0000 wljewell 13754@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ bhokuto, You quote "from St. Terese of the Child Jesus" One of her greatest goals was emulation of Saint Theresa of Avila. She answers your huffing and puffing for you. The saints are human models of trying to be like the God-Man in life. We canonize them with that highest exemplary aspect fully in mind. I have found that when I am spoken to, it is a right comradely 'right here next to' me. Murmurs into my heart and mind come to me in prayer as if He talks into my ear of my inmost being - not 'from above' as much as 'from love'. BTW, of reading, I requested 'Render to Caesar' by Archbishop of Denver, the very Reverend Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. from my library. I read it, and immediately ordered it for my personal library. What a great understanding of humankind, Church and God this ordinary delivers. The man's simple, straightforward prose even lifts the heart and spirit. Get it and read it. noelfitz on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13753 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:13:38 +0000 noelfitz 13753@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Fishman, Your recent post was great. It shows a deep understanding of our faith and is encouraging. I am reading the Letters of Ignatius at present. He fought the heresy that said Jesus was an angel, that he appeared to be man - docetism. fishman on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13752 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:03:14 +0000 fishman 13752@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The reason why Christians should imitates saints is because the saints imitate God. Our call is to be like Jesus Christ. In the gospel of John jesus says this: Now I give you a new command. Love one another as I have loved you. It is the only time Jesus says 'this is a new command'. We are to love one another as Jesus loved us. The saints that are canonized because their lives are like testimony. Like living books about how to carry out Christ command. We should imitate the saints in the way they imitate Jesus. As to Jesus being an angel -- you need to re-look up what the word means. God is pure spirit, but angels are created spirit ( massive difference). God is more superior to the angels then man is a worm. So to say Jesus is an angle is kind of like saying jesus is worm. The only way God could ever be an angle would be if he became one, in someway we could not understand. The bible says nothing about that though, only that he became a man. Paul was taken up body and soul. human beings are and always will be body and soul and to believe otherwise is to deny the last line of the creed. "we believe in the resurrection of the body". When we enter heaven or hell in the final judgement it will be body and soul. Jesus said to thomas after his resurrection:"Look at my hands. see the wounds, feel my side". Was jesus telling a lie ? Was he deceiving Thomas? If after the resurrection, the part of him that had nails placed in human hands was somehow gone. Then he was deceiving and lying. Our resurrection and our heaven will be the same. To claim otherwise is to believe in heresy. Also, you are wrong. Neither wisdom or Eucharist come from peace. They come from love. Where in the bible does it say God is peace? It does however say God is Love. And it also say only three things will endure, faith , hope and love and the greatest of these is Love. Peace is wonderful, but peace is a fruit of being in love with and being loved by the all powerful creator, protector, God. noelfitz on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13751 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 14:05:49 +0000 noelfitz 13751@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ This is one of the few posts you sent that I agree with (partially). I have said before and repeat, you may have gnostic tendencies. bhokuto on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13750 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:17:01 +0000 bhokuto 13750@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Noel, What is Wisdom? Jesus IS. What is the Eucharist? Jesus IS. Where do these two come from? Peace bhokuto on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13749 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:13:59 +0000 bhokuto 13749@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Noel You speak from Encylopedias. I speak from Above, that's the difference. TO KNOW. Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13748 Sun, 05 Oct 2008 13:09:33 +0000 bhokuto 13748@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The Prophet in the old testament namely Ezekiel, who was rejected and told he was a madman, even wrote I will not speak in Your Name what you have given me because I am ridiculed by those whom You sent me to. But he goes on to say in short: Your words burn within me I cannot hold it back, because You burn me to repeat Your words to those who think they know the way. You in your own wisdom think "I say reduced," because of my choice of words thus you presume, Presumption is a sin along with despair, Satan works in darkness and behind the scenes not in the Light. He who comes to the Light speaks in the Light and nothing is hid. Wisdom knows. A person who is seeking God leaves behind this pitiful miserable world because it is in darkness and he runs towards the Light which is God. He only cares about souls coming to that Light to be saved for all Eternity. That is the Gospel to come to God. Pray for souls to be released from their egoes which get in the way of the Life of God. Pray that the seven fold gifts of the spirit which cancel the seven capital sins comes to full bloom. From Love comes everything, all the virtues, faith hope charity, temperance humility prudence. It is not prudent to speak here because quites simply the majority here that remains here are still in the same state since a year ago. No change. In fact there are less people. God is sinless, we are sinners. We are being purified, those who accepted Christ in full view and we stumble we fall but those who persevere will find joy for all Eternity in God. Finally all for the Glory Of GOD. God is free, he created all of us free. Again your idea of church is still not quite right. So long have a wonderful forum life, because Life is in Christ not here. Peace Jakes on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13747 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:20:44 +0000 Jakes 13747@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Noel, I should have appreciated earlier, the wisdom of your approach of ignoring persistent unreasonableness. Thanks. Peace to all, Jakes noelfitz on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13746 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 17:18:57 +0000 noelfitz 13746@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ B As you know I disagree with almost everything you write: You Wrote: “Secondly, the Communion of Saints are (sic) Saints who have achieved Sainthood.” I disagree. The Catholic Encyclopedia defines the Communion of Saints as: "The communion of saints is the spiritual solidarity which binds together the faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory, and the saints in heaven in the organic unity of the same mystical body under Christ its head, and in a constant interchange of supernatural offices." I really think it is a waste of time to debate with you, as you ignore posts other than your own. God bless, NoelFitz. ___________________________________ “When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons” Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI. ____________________________________ bhokuto on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13745 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:54:09 +0000 bhokuto 13745@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Maybe you understand what it Means to imitate God? To hear Him through others as well. The saints of yester year who have gone on before us are enjoying a blissful time in Heaven, but they are along side of us all the way. They repeat Gods Word. We are created by the Word of God, which is from a Thought of God, which is then given a Breath of God. Those who walk in the Spirit, speak Gods words. Know ye not ye are the temple of God? The Temple of the Holy Spirit(God the Third Person) I will not leave you comfortless, but I will send another to comfort you. (the Holy Spirit) God walks among men because Grace has been restored. Without Grace there can be no salvific work. It will all revert to the time of Abraham where there were very few "minute" I would add "Justified by God" men. Thus we would end up in being washed by the Great Flood of Noah's Time. Wherein only a few souls were saved by His Grace. These few believed in God even when there were no "10 commandments." Thus we live in a time where all is harycary. Full of sensuality, pride, greed, all equal the enjoyment of the flesh. None of these care about their souls nor about there plight. Do not be washed alongside them when the flood of God unseen comes. Read Daniel. Peace bhokuto on "Should we Christians imitate saints or God?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/875#post-13744 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:42:08 +0000 bhokuto 13744@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The above is from St. Terese of the Child Jesus. Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13743 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:36:28 +0000 bhokuto 13743@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jakes, Study the Book of Wisdom, in short bursts, but effecitve. Desire within your whole being to See Wisdom not just as words written but Active in your heart and Mind(Intelligence) Reasoning. Here's a verse: Wisdom Book 8:8 8 And if a man desire much knowledge: she knoweth things past, and judgeth of things to come: she knoweth the subtilties of speeches, and the solutions of arguments: she knoweth signs and wonders before they be done, and the events of times and ages. Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13742 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:27:52 +0000 bhokuto 13742@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jakes, where does it say reduced? Jesus takes the 10 commandments and reforms them into two. The Word gives the 10 commmandments and then refines it into two. You mis-understand these two words, reform and refine. As I stated to Laurak, Wisdom is known of Her Children. Peace Jakes on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13741 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:02:53 +0000 Jakes 13741@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Bhokuto, After your saying that God reduced his commandments to 2, I posed some specific issues to you and requested a direct response to them, substantially as follows: *** Then Jesus says "The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments." Does that not lay a foundation under the 10 commandments, rather than eliminating some? Doesn't Jesus say elsewhere that he did not come to dilute but to fulfill the law? (My words, not his). How does your statement (about reducing his commandments to two) square? Please, directly address this particular concern of mine. Thanks. *** I ask again, Bhokuto, that you respectfully keep to the subject and respond to questions asked of you. Peace, bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13740 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:48:12 +0000 bhokuto 13740@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I quote from whatever Is of God. Whether a saint, a marytr, a sinner who speaks the Truth. My soul has no desire for Lies and half-truths. I see the root of each word. where it comes from. Whether from hell or from Heaven. It is easy to distinguish once you "know" the Truth and the Source of the Truth. God is the Source of all Truth. Satan is the source of all Lies. Today the Bibles are so watered down by Protestants and Catholics alike that when I read a reconstituted Bible I can tell how much is has been watered down, because really it's Wisdom Who speaks. The Spirit says not this one, not that one, this one only. When you learn the Language of Heaven which is Wisdom, you walk in the Light which is of God. And Love is the Best thing for all souls. Why would you not want to have Love? Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13739 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:30:04 +0000 bhokuto 13739@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ They will know their God and I will walk in them. { Old Testament } Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13738 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:27:08 +0000 bhokuto 13738@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Comes from Above. Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13737 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:26:34 +0000 bhokuto 13737@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Noel, Here's your goofy reply as usual: ""Jakes Bhokuto has strange ideas, which he is unwilling to change. We are used to them. I try not to reply to his posts, as we are in such fundamental disagreement. I would like this forum to be positive and help us to build up the Church and our mutual faith. God bless, NoelFitz."" You who were willing to follow a Christadelphian, a Baptist, and all Spells Protestant. You who deny St. Pauls teachings and really the Eternal Spirit from being of God, you need to spend time converting from your own ideas. Your ideas are not mostly of God, but as you claim "I'm finding out myself because I don't know either" I say findout. Ask the Lord Himself, Talk to your Angel, Call on the Blessed Virgin. You limit yourself because of your ignorance. A soul who desires to know God will be taught and will know God because God searches for such as these souls to be Taught By Him. Old Testament and New Testament. For the Comforter, the Paraclete, which is the Holy Spirit Teaches and guides, Who is Also God. Three Persons not one. The Blessed Mother is Queen of the Celestial Court for those who can believe. God is a mystery, the mysteries of God have been given to the One Holy Apostolic Church built on martyrs blood the Catholic Church. If you think that because you have been given the mystery of the Eucharist that that's all there is to God, you are gravely mistaken. You still are too Earthly. Convert your wholeself. Learn the language of Heaven where God speaks and Angels obey(listen and do as commanded out of love). Everything in Heaven is ground and rooted in Love. Where there is love there is no Labor. In Heaven, God does not labor because He rested on the Seventh day. Genesis 1. Angels do not labor they obey in love. Something our carnal minds cannot comprehend. Carnal means, beast, animal, not spirit. Spiritual means Spirit. Peace lpioch on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13736 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:15:40 +0000 lpioch 13736@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ bhokuto, You have been known in the past to post quotes from "Poem of the Man-God." Could you please just let us know where your quote comes from? bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13735 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:13:08 +0000 bhokuto 13735@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ For the rest, The Testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy. When you walk in the Light it is God Who Speaks. Peace bhokuto on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13734 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 12:12:25 +0000 bhokuto 13734@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Laurak, that is it you got it. Wisdom is known of Her children. Only Two is required By God and the Word of God has spoken it. The rest is foobar and baffoonery. Peace noelfitz on "Does Jesus Care About Rules?" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/871#post-13733 Sat, 04 Oct 2008 04:02:30 +0000 noelfitz 13733@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jakes Bhokuto has strange ideas, which he is unwilling to change. We are used to them. I try not to reply to his posts, as we are in such fundamental disagreement. I would like this forum to be positive and help us to build up the Church and our mutual faith. God bless, NoelFitz. ___________________________________ “When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favor of abortion and/or euthanasia but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons” Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI. ____________________________________