Catholic Exchange Forums Tag: marriage

Catholic Exchange Forums Tag: marriage http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Catholic Exchange Forums Tag: marriage en Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:50:02 +0000 noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13372 Wed, 28 May 2008 11:38:13 +0000 noelfitz 13372@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, You might like to consider the following: Pray: Come, Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Your faithful, and enkindle in them the fire of Your love. V. Send forth Your Spirit, and they shall be created, R. And You shall renew the face of the earth. Let us pray. O God, Who by the light of the Holy Spirit, did instruct the hearts of Your faithful, grant that by that same Holy Spirit, we may be truly wise and ever rejoice in His consolation, through Christ our Lord. Amen. ************************************************************************* How can we encourage others to join us here? God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13371 Wed, 28 May 2008 07:09:44 +0000 DonHudzinski 13371@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I have always used the sign of the cross, to love the Trinity with all our minds, all are heart, and all our strength. Come Holy Spirit, and strengthen within us the mind of God our Father, the heart of God His Son, and Their Love within us, Your strength, so we may imitate what they mean and learn this love of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Teach us from thy word how to commune with each other in this way. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13369 Tue, 27 May 2008 20:52:26 +0000 noelfitz 13369@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, I agree fully with you. Well said! Do you have any special prayer to the Holy Spirit? God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13368 Tue, 27 May 2008 16:52:40 +0000 DonHudzinski 13368@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The scripture we read, at Mass were written by authors inspired by the Holy Spirit, therefore in order to understand them, one should pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Before each Bible Study, I have, we alway ask the Holy Spirit to guide us. His assitance is essential in the comperhending of that in which we read. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13367 Tue, 27 May 2008 09:21:56 +0000 noelfitz 13367@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, Thank you for your poat. I wish there were more of us here. Again I do not really know what you mean. Do you mean that the person who is open to the Holy Spirit understands all mysteries or that the prayer of one who is open to the Spirit will be answereed? What does open to the Spirit measn? Does it mean being in the state of grace or of being receptive to new ideas? God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13366 Tue, 27 May 2008 07:05:52 +0000 DonHudzinski 13366@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ No mystery can be witheld from the mind that is open to the Holy Spirit, therefore pray, and it will be open. God answers this type of prayer, when it helps His church. I know for I have asked. God Bless... noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822/page/2#post-13365 Mon, 26 May 2008 11:11:24 +0000 noelfitz 13365@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Some time ago I remarked about the priest saying faith does not change but the context does. I was asked to elaborate. Years ago the emphasis was not on abortion. When I was young the debate was about "spare the child and kill the mother". In my father's time people believed Protestants would not be saved. A motive for the missionary work of St Francis Xavier was his belief that without sacramental baptism one could not be saved. Also we used to believe in limbo. Now it itself is in limbo! When I was young also the two great commandments were love God and neighbor. Now I have seen "love God, neighbor and nature" is the great commandment. Also when I was young we prayed for the "perfidious Jews". Nowadays it seem almost a doctrine of the faith that Israel should be supported. Do we really think Jews should rule from the Nile to the Euphratres? Interst/usury was condemned by the Church, now it is seen as the basis of our modern life. When I was young we adored the Holy Ghost; we never heard of the Holy Spirit. Also in the Apostle's Creed we believed (as Anglicans do today) that "He descended into hell". Fundamentally we believe Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. But out beliefs are expressed differently and doctrine develops. The early Church did not have the understanding of a later Church. God bless, Noelfitz. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13364 Mon, 26 May 2008 10:48:13 +0000 noelfitz 13364@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don Thanks for your post. There are not too many of us left here. Thinking about the fifth Joyful Mystery, I presume one would meditate on the relief Jesus and His family felt when they were reunited. No one seems to have behaved very well in this instance. Jesus did not inform his parents he was not going home with them, and they did not immediately miss Him. Perhaps one is reminded of Oscar Wilde's "The Importance of Being Earnest": "To lose one parent, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness." God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13363 Mon, 26 May 2008 08:53:02 +0000 DonHudzinski 13363@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Keep on encouraging me, simple, since when has a mystery been simple. A young lady asks, "What am I to meditate on when, I pray the fifth joyful mystery? Please help me". None had an answer for her. Sometimes it take a question. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13360 Sun, 25 May 2008 11:58:28 +0000 noelfitz 13360@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, Thank you for keeping discussions alive. However, really it is simplest the think of Christ as the New Adam and Mary as the New Eve. God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13359 Sun, 25 May 2008 05:19:35 +0000 DonHudzinski 13359@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Another point is that the husband or the wife must become a second class, for if the one is a God the other is the creature. Some wives look at their husbands as creatures and some husbands see their wives as creatures. This is to make themselves into a God and thier spouse into a creature. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13357 Sat, 24 May 2008 11:53:36 +0000 DonHudzinski 13357@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Regarding Jesus as the new Adam, this is true when we the church are the new Eve, for it is the restoration of the Old Covenant, but is not true in regard to restoration of the fallen marriage of Adam and Eve. There is a big difference between the marriage of Adam and Eve, and the Incarnation, the marriage of Jesus to all mankind. Remember the statement the “Two shall become one flesh” this is accomplished in the Incarnation, when God becomes one flesh with man. This is how marriage is defined for us by God. We define it as between a man and a woman, but God put His Son right into the middle and says marriage can not exist with out His Son. For the first Adam and Eve, it was the presence in the garden, for us the Eucharist which binds us together as family. The Eucharist by its very nature is Incarnate and put us into a marital relationship with God. A husband and wife are first married to the church and its Eucharist, then to each other, for with out Christ there is no marriage. There is a unity here, yes, but there also is a separation of functions. In the case of church we can define Jesus as the new Adam, but in the case of marriage, we can not, less we take the Eucharist away from our members. This especially important to married couples, they need His help. What happen when the Incarnation came into the family of Joseph and Mary, in essence the second church was formed, but also the second marriage, but just like the old testament, we soon upgrade from family to tribe. This is why marriage is a sacrament. Saint Joseph represents the administrative side of the Church, that is our Pope, bishops and priest. Mary represents the Body of believers. Christ, the Eucharist, stands right were He belongs, in the middle, the very heart of Church and marriage. Have ever noticed, that the two sacraments that are Holy, are marriage and orders, that is because they both are centered on the Incarnation. Can I lobby here, and pray... noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13352 Fri, 23 May 2008 18:55:23 +0000 noelfitz 13352@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I would suggest by prayer and lobbying. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13351 Fri, 23 May 2008 16:06:39 +0000 DonHudzinski 13351@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I wonder, how does one gets a dogma started... noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13350 Fri, 23 May 2008 12:06:08 +0000 noelfitz 13350@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don Thank you for your post. It seems that you, Fishman, Loretta and I are the only ones here. I tried (about 24 hours ago) to get a response by submitting a provocative post. So fasr it has not got a reply. It is not pride that encourages you to contribute. Here we are free to express our views, for Catholics within the teaching of the Church, so you are entitled to your views and to argue as best you can for them. Let us hope that soon more will contribute to our debates. God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13349 Fri, 23 May 2008 07:08:02 +0000 DonHudzinski 13349@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I pray that this not a pride within me, but rather the spirit of the Lord, and His will. I am not declairing Saint Joseph the New Adam, I am typing him as such. No man other than Christ, has been as Holy as Saint Joseph. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13348 Fri, 23 May 2008 01:06:35 +0000 noelfitz 13348@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don I try not to disagree too much!! I think it is more useful for us to be all united and encourage each other. However as you know, most of us here believe Christ to be the New Adam. So I cannot support you when you write: "This is why, I would like Saint Joseph dogmatically declared the new Adam we would not argue about this any longer, but would integrate it into our faith. " God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13346 Thu, 22 May 2008 07:52:52 +0000 DonHudzinski 13346@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The fifth joyful mystery, the finding in the temple, is the movement of old marital covenant of Adam and Eve to the new covenant, thus restoring this covenant. Mary and Joseph therefore are the new Adam and Eve of New Covenant and restores the covenant of marriage from its fall in the garden. The marriage of Joseph and Mary is based on the Real Presence as our marriages ought to be, they should be Incarnate, Christ centered, at each Feast of the Lamb of God, through the Eucharist, we have an Incarnation. This is what stabilizes our culture, and our faith. Marriage by its very nature is trinitarian and Christ is the heart of the marital covenant, and the relationship of a husband to his wife. We are to become new creations in Christ, not husbands or wives, but what do we here, I am just like my mother or father, this is to fail to understand the nature of marriage, which should cause our children to become new creations in Christ. Why does this happen, because we fail to understand, the second is liken unto the first, we are to love our neighbors as ourself. Our neighbor is becoming a new creation in Christ, thus we love him like we love Christ, with all are mind, heart and strength. A note this is most dignified by the sign of the cross for God the Father is the mind of God, God the Son is the Heart of God, and the Holy Spirit is the Strength of God, so every time we make the sign of the cross we remember the fullness of our redemption. What does this show us, that our marriage too, can be Incarnate. This is an important distinction, for if we have marriage like this, they will last. This is why, I would like Saint Joseph dogmatically declared the new Adam we would not argue about this any longer, but would integrate it into our faith. fishman on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13341 Wed, 21 May 2008 20:27:15 +0000 fishman 13341@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I don't get on much more, but the form still seems a bit confusing in it's new layout to me. I get a list of recient activity when I log in , but I really prefed having it broken down by catagory. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13339 Tue, 20 May 2008 17:28:17 +0000 DonHudzinski 13339@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The greatest example of this is the marriage of Saint Joseph and Mary. This marriage was total within Christ and an example for us all. Both of these spouses gave all they had to Christ and the will of God the Father. Elevated by Christ to the highest of heaven. The restoration of marriage to as it was at the beginning with Adan and Eve in the garden. lpioch on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13336 Mon, 19 May 2008 08:57:51 +0000 lpioch 13336@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Noel, you ask: I note there seems to be only about one post per day. How can we encourage more? Prayer and patience. Although the front page and articles have properly been transformed, I know they are still working on the improvement of the forums. I think that will help a lot. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13335 Mon, 19 May 2008 01:53:51 +0000 noelfitz 13335@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, it is always great to hear from you. The Pope considered Christ in his talk. "Benedict XVI went on to examine the "profound bond" between the sacrament of the Eucharist and that of marriage, noting how "the liturgy places the celebration of the sacrament of marriage at the heart of the celebration of the Eucharist. [...] In their daily lives, couples must draw inspiration for their behavior from the example of Christ who 'loved the Church and gave himself up for her.'" (http://www.zenit.org/rssenglish-22593). Please also see <a href="http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=88541." rel="nofollow">http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=88541.</a> I note there seems to be only about one post per day. How can we encourage more? God bless, Noelfitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13334 Sun, 18 May 2008 15:00:43 +0000 DonHudzinski 13334@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I hope that partnership includes Christ, for that is what Adam and Eve did they divorced Christ from the marriage. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13330 Fri, 16 May 2008 02:18:33 +0000 noelfitz 13330@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, You might be interested in the enclosed. I received it in an email from Zenit. "VATICAN CITY, MAY 15, 2008 (Zenit.org).- Benedict XVI says there is a profound bond between the sacraments of marriage and the Eucharist. The Pope affirmed this today in the Vatican when he received in audience participants in the plenary assembly of the Pontifical Council for Migrants and Travelers, focused on "The Emigrant and Itinerant Family." (VATICAN CITY, MAY 15, 2008 (Zenit.org))." God bless, Noelfitz. MREINER16 on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13329 Thu, 15 May 2008 20:19:04 +0000 MREINER16 13329@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13328 Thu, 15 May 2008 11:50:07 +0000 noelfitz 13328@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don, many thanks for your post. Who really is the boss? My wife claims that I am the boss, but that perhaps is to humor me. In fact I think we are a partnership. God bless, NoelFitz. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13327 Thu, 15 May 2008 08:39:21 +0000 DonHudzinski 13327@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Ephesians Chapter 5 1 So be imitators of God, 1 as beloved children, 2 and live in love, as Christ loved us and handed himself over for us as a sacrificial offering to God for a fragrant aroma. 3 Immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be mentioned among you, as is fitting among holy ones, 4 no obscenity or silly or suggestive talk, which is out of place, but instead, thanksgiving. 5 Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure or greedy person, that is, an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient. 2 7 So do not be associated with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light, 9 for light produces every kind of goodness and righteousness and truth. 10 Try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11 Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness; rather expose them, 12 for it is shameful even to mention the things done by them in secret; 13 but everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore, it says: "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light." 3 15 4 Watch carefully then how you live, not as foolish persons but as wise, 16 making the most of the opportunity, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore, do not continue in ignorance, but try to understand what is the will of the Lord. 18 And do not get drunk on wine, in which lies debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, 19 addressing one another (in) psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and playing to the Lord in your hearts, 20 giving thanks always and for everything in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father. ----- It seem to me you forgot something, the first part of your quote, lets take everything in context. Behave like this and your wife will not have to worry about the fact your are the boss. noelfitz on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13326 Wed, 14 May 2008 15:06:11 +0000 noelfitz 13326@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Don thank you for continuing this discussion. I am still confused - a semi-permanent state for me. You wrote: "The relationship is that of taking vows, this is done in Baptism and marriage. The vows of baptism bring us into relationship with Christ. The vows of marriage bring us into relationship with our spouse. This is why Saint Paul show a relationship between husbands and wives to that of Christ and His Church." This seems to me to be a huge "non sequitur". I cannot see a connection between marriage/baptism covenants and the Pauline idea of the relationships between spouses and christ and his Church. Are you referring to Ephesians?? "22 Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Savior. 24 Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands." The Holy Bible : New Revised Standard Version, Eph 5:22-24 (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989). My wife says I can claim to be the boss, as long as I do not believe it. God bless, Noelfitz. lpioch on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13325 Wed, 14 May 2008 14:41:37 +0000 lpioch 13325@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The Mass is Heaven on earth. The Mass is Christ - the 2nd person of the Trinity. Therefore, The Mass is Holy Thursday. It is the Passion and Crucifixion of Christ. It is the Resurrection. It is. There is only 1 banquet, and we on earth are blessed to be called to this Supper eventhough we are not yet in Heaven. But, as you said, we are still on earth and still confined to time. Our perfection in Christ takes a lifetime. So we are called to the one banquet throughout our lives. But that one banquet is the source and the summit of our lives. That banquet is the conversation of love of the Trinity, and we are called to participate in this conversation. We certainly take it far too much for granted. DonHudzinski on "The Elevation of Gifts" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/822#post-13324 Wed, 14 May 2008 05:57:21 +0000 DonHudzinski 13324@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Let's talk about go to the table more than once, since you brought it up. Christ initiates the banquet but once when He entered heaven, we just go to the banquet table more than once because of time. Time exist on earth but not in heaven, this is a mystery. We have cycle inwhich we come back to the table, they do not exist in heaven, so it is like one big banquet and not many little ones. This is the best I can do in explaining, can someone do better.