Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: True Government Reform

Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: True Government Reform http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: True Government Reform en Fri, 09 Jan 2009 10:18:48 +0000 wljewell on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12160 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 19:10:46 +0000 wljewell 12160@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ God loves you . This world as Nature is not soiled but distorted from its goodness. It is we as world who in worldly sinfulness are soiled, and so distort God's good creation. And, Satan no more 'owns' creation than I am compelled to even bother with him. Any soiling concerning Satan is my choice to soil myself in sin. The love of money may be MY problem, but is not inherent in the money. That God sent His Son to 'save the world' means that He wants the world as His Church - as we are the world. Nature's matter cannot be saved. The apocalyptic harvest is of the end of the world - likely, material nature ends, as we will - but the harvest is verily of souls. God's creation in no way can fall from goodness as you would describe it, needasaint. Our sins can damage us and twist nature, but Satan can only lead us astray, not deform God's good creation. Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com) needasaint on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12159 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:04:11 +0000 needasaint 12159@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I disagree with you wlj- and PTR 100% from the scriptures as there is way too many other verses, books to say otherwise.There's an element we miss and the depending on who you talk to they see the world as an oyster of nothing but good. It was created good, but was soiled. It was made by a Good God. Who has nothing but Good intentions and Good for those who want Good. But the fact of the matter is the world is overun by evil else God would not have flooded the earth and then would not give us Revelations. When we read "the World" He meant the world according to souls because God is interested in your soul not the flesh nor the material things it craves. Only the things it requires to live a good life according to just living a Grace filled soul who looks to God for all things. Why do we pray for souls when we pray for salvation? Why does the scriptures say "the love of money is the root of all evil"? I'll let you ponder on this one.God would not have given the 10 commandments and the Levitical precepts if man wasn't so evil and could not administer in good, honest, respectful, loyal means to satisfy God and neighbor. And why did He choose a single race? Likewise He has to declare man is evil and send Himself to man to redeem. The word "World" is a broad statement. So what is God referring to? The world is often used by God as a way of describing the unity of man. If you understand what was lost in the Garden then you would understand that God is interested in the soul. Only in Johns Gospel is this ever proclaimed. 16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. 18 He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. 20 For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved. Because these are separated by two numbers it doesn't jive when you say the first one without the rest. So it should be read like this:For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting. For God sent not his Son into the world, to judge the world, but that the world may be saved by him. He that believeth in him is not judged. But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil. For every one that doth evil hateth the light, and cometh not to the light, that his works may not be reproved. "God so love the world", the world of mans souls.Who rules the world presently? Man and Satan. Who does God call god of this world? Satan. Satan needs a man to rule, remember Satan can do nothing without mans consent, which he got from Eve then Adam. Satan began to rule then and became god of this world according to the command God gave to Adam and Eve to rule and conquer. Why does the scriptures warn us to not give occaision to the devil? Because the Devil your adversary roams about like a hungry lion waiting to devour. There are two Gods if we define this correctly, God, and Satan god of all evil. Two higher than man and then man a god within the sphere of what he governs.Next "believes in Him" that is Jesus (which is not mentioned but we have to assume that the Son of God here is Jesus), will not perish and live. That the World of Man may be saved it doesn't refer to Satan nor the others because Satan cannot be saved nor can the earth and it's vegetation. Satan is eternally damned.Next Light came into the world, it doesn't say filled the whole word nor does it say swallowed the whole world, most people assume the Light came to cover the world. The intention is to cover the world someday but it will not in this lifetime clearly stated in the scriptures. The light came into the world to a small place called Bethlehem, then began to spread to destroy the works of the devil. The work of God to get things right is no small thing.Now to rephrase P.S. statments Satan has been given authority by God. There are laws and one of them is no spirit can be erased. Second what God set in order was for man to multiply and fill the earth so He could one day fill heaven. The earth and all this we know will perish. The pearl of great price for God is the soul of man since God invested in it. He gave Himself to man. The world according to the Church is not Jesus Christ, The world is man coming to Jesus Christ getting out of the world soiled by Satan.My statement God is not interested in a world soiled by Satan is a way of describing all of the above. Next my statement, however God is interested in plucking souls out of the world who is Satan is a way of describing the above.Read Revelations, man only seems to understand one or two views of how God views. Symbolism is a way for man to understand how God views the world and it's inhabitants. In thee will I make a nation then He calls him Israel. A Son. Apocalypse 14:15 And another angel came out from the temple crying with a loud voice to him that sat upon the cloud: Thrust in thy sickle, and reap, because the hour is come to reap: for the harvest of the earth is ripe. Peace be with you wljewell on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12158 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:30:39 +0000 wljewell 12158@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ God loves you . . . . for after all, God made His whole creation for us - and, 'God saw that it was good'. Satan is not the world, for the world is potentially the Church. Satan is merely given a sort of custodial authority to bring others to himself, if they prefer sin to God, and death over eternal glory. Mammon is more like 'the things of this world' having been distorted for use in sin. These 'things of this world' are put here precisely for our use to God's purposes under His will. Even government can be of His will, though usually men have their egos so bound to 'the science of power' - politics - God's will has little chance to be observed, in any sense of observing. Human government is 'manned by mere men', who forget to merely police for obedience to natural law and God's Commandments in their eagerness to dictate and control - sadly, corrupted by power. Government has negative value, as our American founders well understood - anarchy is worse more than government is better. Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com) PS: PTR, as I also left at 'Struggling' . . . please contact me via one of my email addresses, above. I'd appreciate it. needasaint on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12157 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:17:47 +0000 needasaint 12157@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jesus says the prince the ruler of this world is Satan. For God so loved the world according to the souls in them. Connect the dots PTR, God made man from the dust, the soul comes from God.How can God love the world? What world? The earth? Yes, the souls? Yes, does He love a world soiled by Satan? But what is He really saying? I come to destroy the works of Satan. Come to take back what is mine, the soul of man, what is earth returns to earth. What is spirit returns to God. Where is God? in Heaven. Where does the spirit return to? To God. Can God love a world soiled by Satan? the Answer is No. There's more to this then meets the eye.The words "So loved" is not so point blank.I so loved her but it is over now.I so love you so I can continue.Apocalypse: I'll use one of many to illustrate:17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication; and they who inhabit the earth, have been made drunk with the whine of her whoredom.Peace be with you  Protect the Rock on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12156 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 02:29:21 +0000 Protect the Rock 12156@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ needasaint wrote: Neither is God interested in a world soiled by Satan. However, He is interested in plucking souls out of the world who is Satan.Does Sacred Scripture tell us that God so loved the souls out of the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not die, but have eternal life?No. Scripture says God so loved the world. And He doesn't He still? Why else would He continue to keep it going?PTR! needasaint on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12155 Fri, 13 Apr 2007 12:12:19 +0000 needasaint 12155@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Majority of the problem I see in this country is this, Catholics are doing their best to follow God and country, which is a falsehood in its self. Jesus clearly lays out the law on this, if you follow mammon you cannot follow God. For you will hate the one and love the other. Neither is God interested in a world soiled by Satan. However, He is interested in plucking souls out of the world who is Satan. When God looks down from heaven and looks at the world He sees the mangy face of Satan allover. At the same time He looks for His children who are caught in Satans grip and comes to snatch His children away from Satan who is a liar and a murder and a robber. The governments have only a form of religion towards God a showing to passify the believers. While defying and mocking the Almighty, God will have the last laugh. They are not interested in Heaven nor God because they have power and riches and they do not want to let that go. A lust of Sensuality, Pride, Avarice. They go to church to appease christians, they go to whever to appease those followers to get votes for the poll, and their future office. They do whatever it takes because they are a religion all to themselves. This is where alot of the ideas come from in posts trying to make sense of the way of life for Americans and work in the Gods ways at the sametime, which always conflicts because the American way of life is not life according to Gods ways. [Isaiah 55]Peace be with you greenknight on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12154 Mon, 02 Apr 2007 08:17:28 +0000 greenknight 12154@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ It's like any other thing. Pass a law. Will the politicians go for it? Not likely, but its a way to cut down on beurocracy.  I don't think changing the ballots will do much good. You can still find out a candidate's party on TV, radio, internet, ect. Secondly, what does a voter's knowledge-no, I woun't even say that. What does a voter memorizing the politically correct sound bit of a politician have to do with cutting down on corruption? pouliot on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12153 Sun, 01 Apr 2007 10:13:02 +0000 pouliot 12153@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ To: GreenKnight <blockquote>RE: " I think it's a great idea."</blockquote>So, how could such be implemented?  The existing parties would never tolerate a law (or Constitutional amendment) to effect this reform. A small step in this direction would be to eliminate the identification of parties on ballots and to institute the ordering of candidates alphabetically A-Z on 1/2 the ballots and Z-A on the other 1/2.  A further step would be to require a candidate to issue a written statement of stance on 3 issues and then require that, for a vote to count, the voter would have to correctly state the candidate's position on 2 out of the 3 issues.  The first of these may have a chance but I doubt it would ever be possible to bring about the latter.<dl><dt>Regards,</dt><dd>Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & amateur whatever)</dd></dl> greenknight on "True Government Reform " http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/711#post-12152 Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:24:34 +0000 greenknight 12152@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ "Democracy is not unthinkable in the absence of political parties. President George Washington in his 1796 Farewell Address specifically warned against the development of political parties in the U.S. He believed this would result in specific geographical areas (north and south) fighting each other for political power over the other. Obviously, this assessment was correct. In light of the American Civil War, one could say party politics almost destroyed our nation. Also, if one party became dominant, the leaders in that party may consolidate power to themselves at the expense of the people, and a single tyrant may then usurp power as well. The United States was governed rather effectively before two major parties, the Federalists and the Republicans, formed. The political system itself in America is designed to exist w/o parties. People don’t vote for parties, but individual candidates in each local district. It makes the politicians directly accountable to the people, not party leaders. A democracy, or, in our case, a Republic without parties would in fact be more effective. Voters would be unable to make uninformed generalizations based on party (example: not all Republicans are Pro-Life). They would have to look more closely at each individual candidate in order to get a clear picture of who each candidate was. Thus, in the absence of what is often deceptive party politics, the people are empowered more politically. The act of legislative governing is also improved significantly. The absence of parties in no way prevents voting coalitions from forming. “If you vote for my bill, I’ll vote for yours.” It also doesn’t inhibit a candidate’s ability to run for office. Any two persons could still endorse each other and raise money for each other, however, instead of supporting each other because they are of they same party, they will stand together because they truly share a common vision for the future of their country. In addition, the absence of two major fundraising juggernaughts to contend with means that almost anyone could run for office without being bombarded with round-the-clock, annoying TV adds. Finally, the abolition of parties would eliminate cumbersome layers of beurocracy. This would not only cut down on corruption, but would streamline legislative leadership by eliminating things like “minority leaders,” “majority leaders,” and so forth. Decisions could then be made much more quickly. More people would also be encouraged vote. Instead of the boring old Red v. Blue slugfests, legislative politics would be more dynamic, with different voting coalitions for different issues. This would make politics more interesting without the need of a scandal. People would pay more attention to the major issues being discussed. The emotional desire to see their side on an issue win out would give them an incentive to vote. Also, the absence of huge party voting blocks will make them fell that their vote counts more." Personaly, I think it's a great idea.