Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"

Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???" en Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:41:12 +0000 bhokuto on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12257 Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:38:58 +0000 bhokuto 12257@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Revelatons 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth after the woman, water as it were a river; that he might cause her to be carried away by the river. 9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. From Fr. Gobbi, The water coming out of the mouth of the dragon or serpent or Lucifer or Satan, is Media, Technology, New Age, Cloning, Modernism. The things which keep a soul from seeing God. we spend less time in prayer, adoration, meditation, reading and doing spirtual things, because we are debating over who to vote for. We do the same when we watch tv, play on PS1-3, Gameboy, DVD's, etc.,. These things have become Idols. 1 Commandment. It doesn't seem that way because the whole world is seduced. Dullness of spirit, due to being tickled in the ear and eye by new ideas. This is exactly what got Adam and Eve into trouble. Being tickled in the ear to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Whatever replaces God in your life as Numero UNO or Number ONE is an Idol. And most of the time we do not notice it. The Blessed Mother in Her messages to many seers and visionaries has warned us about these things. What is harmful to your soul. Satan works non-stop at putting forth his gospel. What is Satans gospel? Kill all mankind any way he can, by removing God from the soul and mind. Through Knowledge. The mind. When God is at work in your life He is in your soul which His Word enlightens your mind. Psalm 19. When Satan is at work in your life the exact opposite occurs. He comes to conquer your mind and than your soul making it dark and void. We need to vote for Life to return through anguish and prayer. Sorrowful Mysteries Agony in the Garden. Peace Jakes on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12256 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:11:38 +0000 Jakes 12256@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ GK,I thank you. You are so right. And I think I perceive that you would agree that The Great Commandment of LOVE underlies it all.You might be interested in this take. Fictitiously, I pose a generous grandfather and his (very young in this tale) unappreciative grandson who treats the myriad gifts he receives from Gramps so carelessly that, promptly and routinely, they become disposable wrecks or - if monitary - are wasted avariciously on junk. "Because" - he tells all - "Gramps will give me plenty more"! I think (and others have agreed) that even his young peers become disgusted with his unappreciativeness!God has given the human race bounteously, a marvelous substance allowing the flourishing of humanity, which, if God were, completely at any time, to withdraw this gift, the whole human race - with unimaginably painful distress by the last lived - would disappear within one "generation". Yet we frolickingly catch this precious substance in condoms and throw it into the garbage, following which the consequences GK voices occur by the millions!What would that selfish boy's little friends - if without first having been brainwashed by our culture of death - think of us?  Peace, Jakes Jakes on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12255 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 09:28:42 +0000 Jakes 12255@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Sorry, GK, I've been off-line composing so haven't read your post but will do so promptly, knowing your thoughts - like Loreta's - always to be so conscientiously meaningful. Jakes. Thanks, Loretta. I'm particularly pleased to have a response from you.It seems very likely to me that I haven't conveyed adequately my objectives. For the reasons you express and because today there will be 3,000+ additional innocent, defenseless human beings added to the gross abortion total and a week from now there will be 21,000+ added (and on and on), abortion seems to be the most urgent and visible place to attempt to start certain changes.Additionally, because abortion has been imposed on America politically and is sustained politically, then politically seems the logical, practical way to deal with that reality. One problem in the fight against abortion, seems to be coordinated, concentrated vitriol directed at individual priests and bishops who speak out publicly against abortion. Such confrontations can and do, I think, inhibit the ease, frequency and effectiveness with which clergy are able to pronounce Christ’s message: the basis of our faith. As you’re from New England, you’ll be familiar with the recent vitriol directed against the Bishop of Providence.Now, if clergy, routinely (more frequently and strongly), were to teach to their congregations what is (and isn’t) the nature of the love of neighbor that we have been COMMANDED by GOD to exercise toward others, whoever they might be, our Catholic laity, individually, collectively, in pro-life organizations - however- could, publicly, make explicitly graphic the direct connection between that doctrine and the myriad and opposing permutations and machinations of America’s culture of death. And those explications might be as frequent, and take as many influential, legitimate, public means as our imaginations might conceive and wallets afford. Wouldn’t that frustratingly multiply and disperse the targets needing to be confronted by opponents of our Culture of Life and Love, and rob such opponents of their facetious rant about the separation of church and state? Further, wouldn’t it be dealing directly and democratically to undermine the sand on which the culture of death is situated?. Wouldn’t TRUTH be their major source of frustration and failure?Now, when democratic inroads have been established - hopefully, incrementally and visibly, leading to November 2008 - there will have grown a strengthened awareness in the US of how a lack of love of neighbor underlies discord throughout our society, beginning in families and coursing through all the rest of our nation’s institutions. Think of the contempt for life demonstrated more and more frequently among the young in their school communities!Loretta, as you know, election after election, 50 % of citizens eligible to vote don’t vote. Logic says they aren’t abortion ideologes, else they’d be early (perhaps often) to the polls on election days. A small portion of 50% would be a major (whopping?) deciding factor in seating new politicians at every level of government (It’s more than a president that counts!). So advice I hear that such and such won’t move voters, really needs to consider margins (increments), not masses.Besides, every vote owned by someone who has formerly voted (for whatever reason) in favor of a politician supporting abortion counts - in reality - as two votes for our side: the one lost to "choice" and the one gained by LOVE! Peace, Jakes gk on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12254 Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:40:39 +0000 gk 12254@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ As to Abortion being the root of all issues ...I think abortion is the largest and most consciously viscious reality against life but ... yet, I think the true root is contraception. Contraception is more viscious against life, not only because contraception allows for the eventual acceptance of abortion, but because contraception turns sex into complete recreation with no love or commitment required or life expected as a possible outcome. Contraception slaps God accross the face so often it cannot be counted. It dwarfs the 3000/day number of abortions by leaps and bounds, it is easily 50 million at a minimum. Contraception rejects any inkling of life. And contraception rejects life in the most personal, complete and physical expression of love that human beings can muster here on earth. Abortion is importantly the last step in a "natural" progression once contraception is accepted but contraception allows for it. Our fallen human nature's logic fails if we accept contraception.  Does that mean that I think Abortion is not an important issue? In no way. IT is of utmost importance. But, the acceptace of contraception makes abortion an issue that will always be on the table. I know the reversal of the acceptance of contraception is a more distance goal. But, I think we should be pushing scientists and companies and our government to look at the bad impact of contraception on health, children, families as well as its support (root cause) of abortion and the culture of death.GK - God is good! lpioch on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12253 Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:34:38 +0000 lpioch 12253@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ You ask,Would readers agree that, today, the alligator in the swamp of the culture of death is abortion and that it needs immediate attention if all the other ills of the swamp are, eventually, to be cleaned out?Yes and No.Yes because I see it as the most tragic as it is brutality against the most innocent. But No because I do not see changing hearts specifically about abortion will necessarily clean everything else out. Because our hearts are not "topical". We may even be able to help people see the injustice against these innocent, but they still cannot see the injustices against the elderly, the inconvenient, and the adversaries.Instead, as you so clearly and beautifully always proclaim, it is the TRUE love of our neighbor...not as ourselves (because we sometimes don't love even ourselves as much as we ought)...but as Christ loves them. We need to be much better at our baptismal call to the apostolate - to go out to preach the Good News and to get the world to know the TRUE Jesus Christ. (Not the one they make up in their own imaginations) Jakes on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12252 Wed, 05 Mar 2008 10:10:12 +0000 Jakes 12252@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/  Would readers agree that, today, the alligator in the swamp of the culture of death is abortion and that it needs immediate attention if all the other ills of the swamp are, eventually, to be cleaned out?That order for immediate attention (abortion first) is a very practical one, for tomorow there will have been 3,000 additional innocent human beings torn apart unto death than the total through today and 21,000 more by a week from today.Further, that "tearing apart" became legally permissable, and continues, through government sanction via the political process.Those innocent human beings who, daily, are "torn apart" are our neighbors whom we have been COMMANDED to love. Any indifference by any of us toward that COMMANDED love of neighbor would be a grave disobedience of God's Great Commandment, to love. The essential "ace-in-the-hole" for rescue of these neighbors is each citizen's resolve to cast a vote for their protection on election day. Candidly expressing such resolve in advance of casting such votes is both prudent and just. This isn't a partisan political matter. Rather, it's the easiest yet the most powerful, single action wan American can take toward caring and helping, as we, each of us, have been COMMANDED to do: Love our neighbor as ourself. Besides it's in our, personal eternal interestPeace, Jakes  gk on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12251 Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:23:31 +0000 gk 12251@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ MREINER16 and HotCoffee,A couple of reasons why some of the 77 million Catholics do not vote for "pro-life" candidates.1. A politician saying he/she Pro-life doesn't automatically mean they are pro-life.Example: George H Bush ran as pro-life. He did little to nothing for pro-life. George W Bush ran as pro-life and did great things for pro-life. Same running philosophy but different results.2. A pro-life politician is not pro-life across the entire fabric of pro-life.Example: George W. Bush promotes the death penalty and George W. Bush also went to war against Iraq. George W. Bush promotes contraception in some cases.GK - God is good! MREINER16 on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12250 Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:29:31 +0000 MREINER16 12250@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ HotCoffee- Agree that if all 77 million voted pro-life the politicians would take notice. The fundamental questions still remain- why do the 77 million Catholic not follow the precepts of the Church and how do get at least a majority to agree? HotCoffee on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12249 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:45:33 +0000 HotCoffee 12249@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I believe that Dr. Dobson has the right strategy. There are 77 million Roman Catholics in the United States. If all these Roman Catholics agreed to vote Pro-Life, both parties (Republican & Democrat) would be forced to run Pro-Life candidates. Jakes on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12248 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:57:19 +0000 Jakes 12248@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ MREINER16,I thank you. Funny, something told me when I read your previous post that you are one to talk to.I like your invitation to others to weigh in and I will hold in abeyance, therefore, some particular comments on your questions. Let me just say that November isn't too far away for great progress to be made. Consider: that the overwhelming massiveness of the non-voting contingent (who surely aren't abortion ideologues, else they'd be out first to vote) presents a rich potential for broken inertia as a result of the dawning on them of TRUTH, elements of which reside in the 19 points I listed. Conversion of only a marginal portion of the 50% is all that's needed. Surely, that's not unachievable. Peace, Jakes MREINER16 on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12247 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:11:32 +0000 MREINER16 12247@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jakes, Your fundamentals appear sound and I would day that your precept #8 of God's Great Commandment goes well beyond the support of Mothers and their potential children. It, in my opinion, extends to end of life decisions, the death penalty, the poor, etc.  I guess the real question in front of us is this the precepts of the majority of Catholics in this country? Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that question. Why do Catholics not organize around your well said precept #8? Do they not believe it or do they not understand it or do they not know how to put it into action? I think these fundamental questions need to be addressed before we can implement precepts 3, 4 &5. There are some Catholic groups (K of C, RTL, St. Vincet DePaul) that do some of this work, but I think much more can be done. I would be interested to hear what others think? Jakes on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12246 Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:22:42 +0000 Jakes 12246@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ MREINER16I'm pleased to read your comments. Perhaps I'm presumptive (I hope not) in thinking you might appreciate some ideas I've been floating about. They're not exactly yours but I suspect we might have room for dialog and action. So, I'm going to reproduce here a post I made to Fr. Pavone's article of Feb 29 in CE's The Edge. That post follows:....Valid, perceptive supporters of God’s gift of life recognize many fundamentals that others miss. An enumeration of some of these fundamentals follows. 1. In our political system of checks and balance, no single elected official imposes, nor can quell a national culture of death. That culture is sustained through deliberate collaboration of multiple agents, at multiple levels, both within and outside of government. Politics, however, is the lynchpin by which that culture was imposed initially through government, and is continually maintained thereby.2. Accordingly, certain realities present themselves very clearly. The following seem such.3. Restricting one’s life-supporting aspirations to just electing a president isn’t enlightened thinking.4. Waiting till election day to "send a message" isn’t, either.5. Candidates for all political offices at all levels need be made aware, early, of constituent resolve.6. Such resolve need be consistent with moral convictions that guide individuals’ lives.7. Whether well observed or not, the Ten Commandments fill that purpose in the lives of most.8. God’s Great Commandment "Love God .. Love your neighbor as yourself" underlies the Ten.9. Innocent, defenseless human beings in the womb are our neighbors.10. Mothers of these unborn are our neighbors, too. Yet they occupy a uniquely precarious status.11. As the agent legally free to order her baby killed, she’s vulnerable to 3rd-party pressures to do so!12. Back to #8, above. At a minimum, "to Love" is to care about and help a neighbor in need.13. (Well numbered?). God isn’t likely to forget those who won’t love neighbors with a simple vote!14. Perenially, 50% of all eligible to vote fail to do so, allowing 3,000 human beings killed each day!15. Others ignore the abortion-facilitating actions of candidates, voting for them for other reasons!16. Assuming God’s records are pretty good, those related to His Great Commandment surely are.17. Eternity’s a long time for anyone to pay for election day indifference (lack of caring) to neighbors.18 . Pro-life groups need put these ideas as 1st priority, aided by clergys’ teaching obligations to Love.19. Learning well God’s intent expressed in #8, citizens need actively initiate #s 3, 4 & 5 pronto! By a subsequent post I said the following:In my post of 2/29/8 I should have inserted the following as Item 8a:8a Persistently and actively collaborating with associates, "smoke out" publicly, all candidates' truly held positions on Love of neighbors in the womb and the mothers who bear them.Peace, Jakes MREINER16 on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12245 Sat, 01 Mar 2008 07:20:49 +0000 MREINER16 12245@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ It is easy to focus on the Presidential election, but as former Speaker of the House tip O'neil once said, "all ploitics is local". We probably cannot do much now about the presidential election. It will be McCain vs. Hillary or Obama. What we can do and should do is mobilize for local elections-which is where most in gov't gets done anyhow. It is at the Town, County, Village and State levels where ploitics is "played". It is here where monies are allocated to Planned Parenthood, condoms are given away, schools change curriculuums to "Johnny has two Mommies", etc. We Catholics in NY are now mobilizing to stop our pro-choice Governor from forcing Catholic institutions in the state to perform abortions. This needs to be stopped and I'm sure similar things happen in other states. So, yes, lets vote for a President that most closeley aligns with Catholic values, but remember not to focus only here every 4 years. Remember the wise words of Mr. O'Neil and work locally to ensure Catholic values are followed in your own schools, towns, villages and states. Jakes on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12244 Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:45:34 +0000 Jakes 12244@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ PTR,The answer to your question right now is "We don't know". And the reason is that we have things backward.We shouldn't be asking ourselves questions (such as "Whom should we vote for?"). We should be asking questions not of ourselves but of all candidates who seek our support and the questions we ask them need to be questions that will elicit a true picture of how they would deal with the most important issues in life that government might affect - for good or evil.Right now, the primary question is how they would govern or administer the position to which they ask us to honor them, in such a way that human dignity would always be respected and protected within their span of influence.The most aggregious violation of human dignity is the abortion of innocent, unborn human beings. It is most aggregious both by virtue of its severity to those lives and by the massive number of such lives affected: more than 3,000 innocent human lives each and every day in the USA, in excess every day of the total lives taken by terrorists 9-11-2001The Golden Rule - to which most American would subscribe - says "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Surely no one would choose to have his own life taken away brutally (aborted). So why are so many American citizens silent when their ballots could stop the carnage of their neighbors: 3,000 plus of them each and every day.Where does each candidate for office - federal, state and local - stand on this issue. We have a right to know; we need to know; and it is our responsibility to find out (as regards each of them, to our satisfaction) and take appropriate action (our vote) to right this wrong. Where did such personal responsibility of each citizen arise and how binding is it?God's Great Commandment includes a requirement on each and every one of us to "Love your neighbor as yourself". That Commandment is not an option without consequence for its ignoring. It is the most vital and basic Commandment - with eternal implications for good or ill.Peace Jakes Protect the Rock on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12243 Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:41:12 +0000 Protect the Rock 12243@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ "Alright, so who do we vote for???" bhokuto on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12239 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 16:28:48 +0000 bhokuto 12239@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jesus said My Kingdom is not of this world. That is why He did not stay on Earth to conquer through the ages. He is in Heaven orchestrating Redemption to bring souls out of turmoil, tyranny, sadness, unhappiness. To give hope for those who do not possess what the birds possess, to lead away from corruption. Otherwise He would have done what He said to His aposltes: no ye not I could call upon Legions of Angels and they would conquer? So with that said, we should be light on a High Hill shining the Truth to it to release souls from the bondage of Hell. Hell is everywhere a soul is not in the Truth. Where the Truth is where Heaven's Beam is. That Beam is in the Tabernacle down the road here a few miles calling souls to come and adore and worship Him. Peace KenB on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12241 Thu, 21 Feb 2008 03:01:24 +0000 KenB 12241@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Can I take it then, PTR, that you are not an Obamanista?My wife is Latina and she said this past Tuesday that it seemed to be "el dia de las Obamanistas"; I do not know why, but in my mind anyway, that term sounds catchy.I am not an Obamanista either; I hope McCain wins. Protect the Rock on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12240 Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:04:43 +0000 Protect the Rock 12240@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I don't relish four years of BO either. KenB on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12242 Mon, 18 Feb 2008 13:02:10 +0000 KenB 12242@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Well, none of my guys are winning either. Of course I like and in fact quite admire Alan Keyes but more realistically, as a practical matter, in the recent California primary, I voted for Mitt Romney.Now that Romney is out however, since it does not seem Huckabee will carry the nomination, I guess it is McCain.Since I am Catholic, in the general election, I will vote for the pro-life candidate, and that is McCain; in that respect things seem quite simple.Now of course, given his age and the fact that he will of necessity need to balance the ticket, McCain's running mate will be important.I still hope that no matter what happens, that Hillary is not elected. I don't think I could handle four or eight years of Evita Peron in a pantsuit running the nation.    internate on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12238 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:23:57 +0000 internate 12238@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Ha. Winslow, I probably could have wrote your post myself. :) I too feel the pain of distain when I think about politics. My heart has, for many years, been unmoved to participate in any capacity. Much like you, my heart is in one of those who has been written off by the media, Dr. Ron Paul. To me, he speaks the truth that I feel our country needs to hear. Not the garble that politicians speak, but the wisdom of the statesmen that founded our country. I scan the airwaves and hardly get even a glimpse of his name. But I will say that passing laws to change that may not be the best way to solve it. CNN, FOX NEWS, and MSNBC are all private companies and have the sovereign right to show and say what they choose. While we may not like that fact, it's those same rights that allow channels like EWTN to air Mother Angelica. And legislation that would make networks equal out programing would pave the way to "Praying the Holy Hours with Joel Osteen". But the media is what it is, and always has been. Ideas and people have a way of changing things regardless. And sometimes that change can be slow. The media is only as strong as we let them be. All that being said, we need to have hope. When we find people we believe in, we need to let that passion lead our actions and follow in turn. My life has been enriched by this election. I have found that my beliefs do have a voice, and no longer am I alone. No matter the outcome of this election, I'll feel like a winner. And someday, by God, I'll be one. God Bless,NT Winslow on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12237 Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:08:36 +0000 Winslow 12237@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ internate, your impulse is laudable, but when it comes to politics in this country, I'm the head cynic. Both parties are beyond corruption in terms of their allegiance to special interests and our interests are the last thing they care about.Yes, there are issues; we can vote for Republicans because they're more pro-life or we can vote for Democrats because they'll stop the bleeding and get us out of Iraq, but mostly what they'll do is hem and haw and cut deals and little will change.What bothers me most is a guy like Keyes hasn't got a chance going in. He speaks the truth and the last thing the people with the money want to hear is the truth. Keyes can't raise a dime and elections are governed by cash; cash to buy TV ads.The broadcast channels belong to us, the people, not the networks. Congress could level the playing field by passing a law that says the networks must make broadcast time available to all viable primary candidates at 20% of their usual rate and 30% for the general election with a limit for both sides. Congress will never do that because the two major parties don't want a level playing field and the nets give them money to keep things as they are. Basically, it stinks.Bottom line, if you get a conversation going here, I'll participate, but I have no illusions what we say will make a dime's worth of difference. That's what cynicism is. Peace internate on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12236 Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:45:03 +0000 internate 12236@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Is this the best we can do folks? I have to say that I'm a bit saddened by not just this forum, but by the overall lack of Catholic unity and voice during the primary election period. Where is the discourse? Where is the debate? Is this really going to come down to another single issue year? I know politics isn't pretty. Even Jesus got the raw deal from the Roman's in his day, but even he would have voted on principle. I know I'm not speaking for a place of sober rationale, but instead from a place of sincere quandary as I ponder why this forum, The Catholic Exchange, and others like it, seem to have literal cyber-dust on them. Is this the best we can do? No offense to those who have posted here. Your voices deserve to be heard as much as for my ramblings, but is there a place for this discussion to continue? I know that the primary season is a tough one, where people seem to go against the people in their own team, but I was hoping for more discourse when I came here. As the topic of this thread seemed to ask, and I repeat, Who Are We Going To Vote For? This isn't a question that will ever be answered, but it seems that little has been done beyond asking it. Or maybe it has. I don't mean to whine, nor do I plan to monopolize this forum with my own chatter, but isn't there something that interests enough to mobilize enough energy to bring this topic to a discussion rather than simple 'political comment of the week'? To this end I offer you fodder. For one, it seems that Alan Keyes is a favorite among some of you. Do you still feel the same? To those who vote based on the Pro-Life stance, how can a Republican who is pro war be an effective leader in the Pro-Life movement? Who do you think would best uphold the Constitution? Discuss. If you want. God Bless,NT bhokuto on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712#post-12162 Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:36:05 +0000 bhokuto 12162@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Jesus teaches in the Gospels, that about "investing" your soul, so when I vote for say a candidate and I know his or her stand, and simply put they will fail everytime because they are full of faults just like me. And more so for them because they are in a position of "great power". Power Corrupts. "Absolutle power absolutely corrupts." I'm trying to convert myself from corruption. Why do I want to return to it? I do not want to harm my soul anymore, I want it to become a pure, holy, chaste, "good". Whenever I flip the channel to hear a debate, I see "corruption, pride, avarice, sensuality" Simply put it hurts inside, because they are bodies with souls. and God hurts too to see, feel and hear another soul belittling another soul. If I vote for these people "who do not love" their opponents I vote for Satan's kingdom. God is Love, He who loves not knows not God. This is how you should vote. Based on Love. I see no love in the "system" therefore I do not see God in it. Therefore I do not follow it, less I destroy my soul in Hell. It's that simple. But it really is not that simple, because you have to "convert yourself daily" and seek the Kingdom of God of Heaven, Of Jesus first thing in the Morning when you arise out of Bed or awaken in bed. Sometimes I pray in bed for about an hour, sometimes I sit on the floor with my legs crossed to enhance my spiritual energy, the light which God gave us. Jesus is the Light of the World. If God is light and the soul comes from God, the soul should remain in the light. If not it does not it is in utter darkness and how dark is that darkness? Turn off the light? Never turn off the light, never extinguish the light God gave to us. INVEST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, put your soul in His trust, Jesus I trust in You! This is called "Humility" by lowering yourself and saying I can do nothing good without You Jesus! Peace bhokuto on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712#post-12163 Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:18:24 +0000 bhokuto 12163@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Yes, We vote for Sanity, Sanctity, For Holiness, and I'm Joyful about my Decision. Because My Reward comes from God. Not Man. Praise God for all His creation the Work of His Hands, You and You. Lets Lets hope to Say to each other: "Brother, Glad you could make it passed the Pearly Gates!!" I think we are in the Revelations Chapter 13 going on 14. But the Mark of the Beast is already here.. Credit cards, ATM cards, Bank accounts have become electronically transferrable. little mircodot chips embedded in people already happened, Credit card companies want people to be embedded with these chips. So do Hospitals. Pretty soon it will be mandatory. This is when the "tough" in Christ get going, Battle ! ! ! ! Praise God, Judas Maccabees, "This Day God will defeat all His enemies and lay waste to those who oppose Him." The Earth is His footstool, The Heavens His Throne, Father Almighty, Jesus Christ, Eternal Spirit, lay waste to your enemies! Bless the Lord Oh My Soul, Bless the Lord Oh My Soul!! Peace David T Garrison on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12235 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 12:30:58 +0000 David T Garrison 12235@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Since abortion, in the context of the defense of innocent life and the health and welfare of a woman, a man and the basic unit of society that they form, the family, the following is a must read.Especially to help explain pro-lifeyness:thanks jofa :O}<a href="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1501625&blobtype=pdf">http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1501625&blobtype=pdf</a>In Christ,There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me...Remember, the Sun is always shining! internate on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12234 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:37:16 +0000 internate 12234@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Since abortion seems to be the issue that's on everyone's mind here, I thought you guys might find <a href="http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/22/599487.aspx">this article from MSNBC</a> worth reading. 'Jane Roe' endorses Paul Posted: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:05 PM by Mark Murray Filed Under: 2008, Paul From NBC's Gabe Herman On the 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling, Norma McCorvey (a.k.a. "Jane Roe," who later changed her views on abortion in the mid-90s) gave Paul her official endorsement today. "I support Ron Paul for president because we share the same goal, that of overturning Roe v. Wade. He has never wavered on the issue of being pro-life and has a voting record to prove it. He understands the importance of civil liberties for all, including the unborn," she said at a press conference in Washington this morning. Paul accepted the pro-life activist's endorsement, saying of abortion: "It is still one of the most crucial issues of our day that we deal with this. As much as I talk about economic liberties, and civil liberties, and trying to avoid the killing overseas, I think the issue of life is paramount." David T Garrison on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12233 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:08:58 +0000 David T Garrison 12233@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ PTR,Thank you for your knowledge on President Lincoln. Although he did not run on a platform of eradicating slavery, it appears he desired its demise, lending hope to the abolitionists.His message was that slavery was wrong, and ought to be confined to the areas where it already existed, and placed on the course of ultimate extinction,Having said that, who, in your opinion, fits the request of this thread along the lines of your last paragraph?In Christ,There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me...Remember, the Sun is always shining! Protect the Rock on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/3#post-12232 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:40:46 +0000 Protect the Rock 12232@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ DTG,Lincoln was nominated as a moderate Republican; he supported the Corwin Amendment to the US Constitution, explicitly protecting slavery in the states which already had it. His message was that slavery was wrong, and ought to be confined to the areas where it already existed, and placed on the course of ultimate extinction, but he had no plan to outlaw slavery in the South. Lincoln was elected into office on abolitionist votes, he was not even on the ballot in nine of the southern states. Many abolitionists, we may surmise, voted for him in the hopes that his moderate position would, in the long run, allow a majority of free states into the Union and enable the outlawing of slavery by Constitutional means. Of course, we all know the war broke out and the issue was resolved with bloodshed...The fact that hindsight is 20/20 is exactly the point -- at the time, conscientious voters were not at all certain Lincoln would not fold, especially when the stakes were raised to open warfare on our fellow citizens. The parallel to the abortion issue, in my opinion, is this -- slavery was also the defining moral issue of the time with no middle ground, and yet citizens of conscience found a way to vote into office a candidate who had the strength of character to stand firm on the issue, make hard choices, and see it through. They didn't refuse to exercise their responsibility as co-owners of the franchise.I am not implying anything more than that. David T Garrison on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12264 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:16:10 +0000 David T Garrison 12264@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ PTR,Also, how would the vote of an aboltionist, affect my conscience in regards to abortion? Are you implying that because someone's platform does not include the unborn, there is potential for eradication of abortion in our country?In Christ,There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me...Remember, the Sun is always shining! David T Garrison on "Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???"" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/712/page/4#post-12263 Thu, 24 Jan 2008 05:05:34 +0000 David T Garrison 12263@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ PTR,In his campaigning, was he in favor of slavery, of any kind?How do you know if abolitionists voted for him?Hindsight is 20/20...In Christ,There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me...Remember, the Sun is always shining!