Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: Catholic Vote

Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: Catholic Vote http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Catholic Exchange Forums Topic: Catholic Vote en Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:55:26 +0000 noelfitz on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724/page/2#post-13425 Mon, 16 Jun 2008 23:14:56 +0000 noelfitz 13425@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I usually do not look at this forum as I concentrate on "Faith & Life". However I see many of my friends who contribute to F&L also contribute here, as issues are similar often. Pro-life issue can be in either forum. As neither fora have a critical mass would it be a good idea to bring fora together to increase the number of contributions and participants and get more active discusssions going. God bless, Noelfitz. ______________________________________________________________ IN NECESSARIIS UNITAS, IN DUBIIS LIBERTAS, IN OMNIBUS CARITAS. ______________________________________________________________ MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-13422 Sat, 14 Jun 2008 13:23:08 +0000 MREINER16 13422@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ do we need anymore evidence on which candidate is more close to the Catholic position on abortion? <a href="http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08061302.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08061302.html</a> fishman on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-13418 Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:06:04 +0000 fishman 13418@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ It is interesting that oboma dissolved his committee on the catholic votes because it's members received so much static from catholics and the bishops. A good thing actually I suppose. MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-13400 Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:42:40 +0000 MREINER16 13400@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ So now the primary season is over and it will be Obama vs. McCain. Where will the Catholic vote (if there is even such athing anymore) go? The following are quotes directly from each candidate: "John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench."(McCain) "A woman's ability to decide how many children to have and when, without interference from the government, is one of the most fundamental rights we possess. It is not just an issue of choice, but equality and opportunity for all women. I have consistently advocated for reproductive choice and will make preserving women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. I oppose any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's ruling in this case." (Obama) So there you have it in black and white. While McCain may not be the "perfect" candidate from a Catholic perspective, his poistion seems more in line with Catholic teaching. Arkanabar on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12424 Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:51:36 +0000 Arkanabar 12424@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Most objections to Dr. Paul are that he would rather the abortion fight (and most such fights) be state-by-state fights, rather than national fights. I honestly cannot decide which is preferable. The principle of subsidiarity suggests that Dr. Paul is right. It's easier to get people to fight against the abortion clinic in their own neighborhood than Planned Parenthood Foundation of America, in no small part because the smaller the fight, the more impact they can imagine having. If one regards both of the major party candidates as intrinsically evil, I would vote for the best of the third-party candidates, and never mind the results. Each of us must take responsibility for our own conscience. OhioNan on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12423 Tue, 20 Nov 2007 02:19:35 +0000 OhioNan 12423@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I would like to comment on the issue of "voting for the lesser of evils"My conscience tells me that I could NEVER vote for an evil, PERIOD!Voting for a little evil is just as sinful as voting for a big evil.I will not throw my vote away and compromise my Pro Life principles.Voting for a Pro Abort to keep Hillary out would be a mortal sin.I would not be able to sleep knwoing that I had voted for a man, in this case Rudy Giuliani, who has promised to help women kill their unborn children. There is a strong Pro Life Republican candidate in the race, and he is a 10 term Congressman from Texas. His name is Dr. Ron Paul. Check out his website. pouliot on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12422 Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:35:39 +0000 pouliot 12422@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Re: <blockquote>"Washington, D.C. wasn't built on swampland for nothing."</blockquote>Just for the record.  The Conoy had a trading village in DC.  It was called Naconchtanke, I believe. <dl><dt>Regards,</dt><dd>Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic [Latin rite] & generally inveterate amateur)</dd></dl> wljewell on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12421 Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:48:08 +0000 wljewell 12421@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ God loves you . Hello-o! Voting for an executive leadership or legislative 'representative' (no guffaws now!) critter has modernly become, always and everywhere, picking a lesser of two evils. Even Huckabee is more likely to schmooze with the Billary than with you or I. It is the nature of the political animal to take on red-white-and-blue feathers and flock together. And, whatever perch to alight upon, they begin to squawk - not listen. The days of the Lincoln-Douglas debates, for taking any shot from any in the audience, are long gone. No - today we are sound-bitten. The point is, I usually hold my nose on the first page of the ballot. Washington, D.C. wasn't built on swampland for nothing. It seemed to be our Founders' sincere hope that no one would ever WANT to serve there. A person might choose, from a sense of grateful duty, to spend his last four to eight productive years there - three to six months every two years. This would occur after a distinguished career actually living like and with ordinary citizens; and, returning to their midst for the remaining eighteen months of every two years when D.C. or state capital is not in session. The Founders' Eleventh Amendment for the Bill of Rights would have been 'Shooting career politicians should not be discouraged'; and, right after a politician ends his eighth year in any D.C. or state-wide office(s), years, offices and locales need not be contiguous, and is still in one of the offices, all his clothes are modified to append a visible target on the back. Let's see what comes out of all this primaryizing. Anyone for an amendment that permits a ballot slot for 'Let's leave it open for a term and see if we really needed this function'? Maybe, too, 'Whichever of the above is not incumbent'? How about the 'constituent-dilution amendment' - tripling or more the numbers of Senators, and bringing the House up to its original numbers of a Representative for every 60,000 home folk - that would make for 5,000 Representatives. The opportunities for foible-ridden comedy would be impressive, huh? We'd have to download Jay Leno's nightly two-hour monologue. Then, there's the 'fully-accountable amendment', where every penny the politician and his family - spouse, offspring, siblings, et al - 'earns' or has donated to the ever-present campaign chest has to be reported for source. Remember, I love you, too . In the Suffering of Christ, and in His hope of His Resurrection, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com) David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12417 Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:53:42 +0000 David T Garrison 12417@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ What if it was the law that you had to vote? Not a privilege or a right but a necessity in order to maintain citizenship or avoid a tax of some sort. If this were the case, then I would have to pray intensely about renouncing my citizenship or paying a levy. Since this is not the case, and as I have personally put my life on the line so that others may have this privilege, it is a difficult decision to not vote.However, to use kmill's analogy of a hole, I believe I'll approach it one office and one prayer at a time. If I look at the hole we have dug for ourselves in this country by voting for the lesser evil, then I may fall into the sin of despair.Remember, the Sun is always shining! on a journey on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12420 Sun, 11 Nov 2007 05:09:52 +0000 on a journey 12420@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ great comments Dspencer--we cannot rely on politics to change the "way things are" in our country. If so, we know they way they WILL go. Not certain where my vote will go but praying about it. In the meantime, trying to be a voice in the school yard, on the play ground, at the grocery store, at the ladies group, etc. Talking to other Catholics (people in general but Catholics in particular) about the direction of our country/state/city is as important as voting in my opinion. Jesus, I Trust in You!! kmill on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12419 Sun, 11 Nov 2007 04:24:08 +0000 kmill 12419@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I think one must vote for the lesser of two evils. Voting for the lesser does not mean that I agree with or support thier views. One of them will be elected whether or not I vote. Voting for the lesser will, hopefully, at least slow the progression of evil. While it may be difficult to climb out of a hole six feet deep, it is harder still to climb out of one that is twelve. We need to at least try to slow the digging. MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12418 Sun, 11 Nov 2007 02:14:03 +0000 MREINER16 12418@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Now the question has hit the "mainstream" media. I wonder if it's a strategy of the Democrats to divide and conquer. I still feel that as a Catholic I need to make a choice that may not be perfect, but when I look at the alternative, what choice do I have? <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/08/roland.martin/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/08/roland.martin/index.html</a> MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12416 Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:02:44 +0000 MREINER16 12416@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I would think that being a social liberal in some respects while retaining and strong conservative position on the moral and "family" issues is a good thing from a Catholic perspective. pouliot on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12415 Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:00:56 +0000 pouliot 12415@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Re: D T Garrison's post: <blockquote>"...thoughts on Huckabee..."</blockquote>I think he is a social liberal but conservative on issues that have a clear moral dimension.  (I haven't stated that quite correctly, but I'll clarify when it comes to me.  Perhaps I should state just that he is a social liberal but that he has strong convictions against immoral acts.) <dl><dt>Regards,</dt><dd>Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic [Latin rite] & generally inveterate amateur)</dd></dl> David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12414 Sat, 03 Nov 2007 06:49:11 +0000 David T Garrison 12414@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ not bad, I will have to check out his website...Remember, the Sun is always shining! MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12413 Fri, 02 Nov 2007 16:41:25 +0000 MREINER16 12413@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The more I learn about him, the more I like him. This is from his website:<li>"I support and have always supported passage of a constitutional amendment to protect the right to life. My convictions regarding the sanctity of life have always been clear and consistent, without equivocation or wavering. I believe that Roe v. Wade should be over-turned. "</li><li>"I applaud the Supreme Court's recent decision in Gonzales v. Cathcart forbidding the gruesome practice of partial birth abortion. While I am optimistic that we are turning the tide in favor of life, we still have many battles ahead of us to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and so it is vital that we elect a pro-life President. "</li>  David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12412 Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:27:39 +0000 David T Garrison 12412@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ any thoughts on Huckabee?Remember, the Sun is always shining! Dspencer on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12411 Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:57:43 +0000 Dspencer 12411@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ The end does not justify the means. And voting for the lesser of two evils is problematic as well, when both support intrinsically evil notions. I would simply add this...as Catholics we need to work to change people and not let politics become our only method of participation. Participating in daily work with people is our first concern. Christ could have altered the political scenario but did not do so--choosing instead to build the Kingdom one person at a time. Don't fall into the trap of believing politics is the only venue for change. Consider those who move government towards their personal anti-Christian point of view-from individual atheist who got prayer out of the public square, to anti-war activists, etc. People can make a difference at many levels not just presidential. Yes a pro-life candidate would be wonderful-but not probable-so work the other channels of justice available to us as Catholic citizens. Work on local candidates, judges, media, schools, etc.Peace to you all. David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12410 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:58:16 +0000 David T Garrison 12410@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Yes he did. I did not read why, sorry for commeenting without doing so, that's why I suggest as pouliot had stated to promote him everywhere and get him back in!Remember, the Sun is always shining! MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12409 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 00:43:21 +0000 MREINER16 12409@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ David-dI agree, but didn't he officially drop out last week? David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12408 Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:40:56 +0000 David T Garrison 12408@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Every Catholic should seek to promote Sen Brownback and get him back "in the race".Remember, the Sun is always shining! MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12407 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:34:38 +0000 MREINER16 12407@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I have been a little bit heartened by the recent polls that show Mike Huckabee moving up perhaps even into the spot with the top 3-4 other Rep. From my perspective and I would hope other Catholic-Christian perspective he is solid on the right to life issue and would offer a stark contrast to whomever is the Dem candidate. I agree with David, pray is what is needed now. David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12404 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:12:20 +0000 David T Garrison 12404@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Do we vote for Rudy and pray like the world is ending for the Holy Spirit to crush his heart of stone, or do we not vote and pray for the Holy Spirit to crush the others hearts of stone.I, for one, after some consideration, have decided to pray more on this, but at this time I will not vote for anyone who would kill the innocent. Period.However, I will pray more fervently as we do every Sonday for those who are in a position of power that the Trinitarian God may change their hearts. God's will [will] be done. Remember, the Sun is always shining! pprimeau1976 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12406 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 05:41:25 +0000 pprimeau1976 12406@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ MReiner, by not voting at all, it would be a vote for the democratic candidate. We know that in either way, a democratic candidate would be pro-abortion. We also know that in either way, a democratic candidate would want a governmental sponsored health care plan that most likely would include abortion as a medical treatment. Even though Guliani is pro-abortion, I know that at least he would not want the government to pay for it.I pray that we get a good pro-life candidate that could win. David T Garrison on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12405 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 01:33:18 +0000 David T Garrison 12405@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ May God raise up more Catholic men and women to take up the cross of politics. Amen!Remember, the Sun is always shining! MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12403 Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:51:05 +0000 MREINER16 12403@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Dspencer, thank you for your commitment and for the strong values that you obviously adhere to. My question is not so much one of citizenship, but of practicality. If both candidates (Rep and Dem) support abortion, gay marriage, etc. but you believe that one of these candidates if not for their stance on these moral issues would be an otherwise acceptable candidiate while the other still would not, in practical terms it appears to be better to vote (and supported by the Church) if this person is the "lesser of 2 evils". This is so hard because it loks like as Catholic's we will not have a candidate left who will be advocating the social/moral issues that we defend. Dspencer on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12402 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:15:00 +0000 Dspencer 12402@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ I simply cannot, and will not, vote for anyone who supports abortion by affirmation or by silence. I have worked in politics and can tell you that assurances made by candidates don't amount to much--but you all know that. I am a died in the wool Republican but will not vote for Giuliani. Our primary "citizenship" is not here, and I am willing to do as much as I legally can to stop abortion. I personally believe this is just the first in a long line of choices we Catholics are going to have to make in the next couple decades. The challenges to marriage, the family, free speech in the pulpits, etc. are all under severe attack. You might as well become accustomed to living in an adversarial culture while working and praying for its conversion. Stay faithful to truth and Our Lord. Let the chips fall where they may and trust the Holy Spirit to work in the world. Many of our Catholic ancestors died for much less and I, for one, will not betray their patrimony of faithfulness to truth by engaging in political expediency. AlvinaL on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12401 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:46:09 +0000 AlvinaL 12401@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ Mreiner16, from the link provided above:"If a Catholic were to vote for a candidate who supports a policy involving intrinsic evil, such as abortion, precisely because of that position, the Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil," it adds. "In some cases, if a Catholic who fully accepts fundamental principles such as the right to life were to vote for a candidate despite the candidate's opposing position but because of other proportionate reasons, their vote would be considered 'remote material cooperation' and can be permitted only if there are indeed proportionate reasons." Was this written at Democratic headquarters? This explains why Giuliani supports abortion. I read and heard that pro-life candidates Thompson and Brownback were planning to drop out of the Presidential race this weekend.In some past elections we’ve learned that not voting will help the least desirable candidate. The 2008 Presidential election looks grim. Voting will be an act of penance. MREINER16 on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12400 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:52:28 +0000 MREINER16 12400@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ lpioch-thank you for your analysis of the article and I agree with you. I think your final question is truly soul searching and for me at least at this point with the leading candidates from both parties will make it a very difficult choice. lpioch on "Catholic Vote" http://forums.catholicexchange.com/topic/724#post-12399 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 10:33:01 +0000 lpioch 12399@http://forums.catholicexchange.com/ This is an excellent question, and one that I (and many many many) am wrestling with. I look forward to hearing other responses as well. One thing from the article you linked that I thought was interesting was this line:"In some cases, if a Catholic who fully accepts fundamental principles such as the right to life were to vote for a candidate despite the candidate's opposing position but because of other proportionate reasons, their vote would be considered 'remote material cooperation' and can be permitted only if there are indeed proportionate reasons." So the question, for me, now becomes:Does voting for the lesser of 2 evils (like in the example you give above) constitute "proportionate reasons"?