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Body of Christ and angels
(72 posts)pouliot,
I believe the Body of Christ is the Church Militant which includes all baptized people of God who are struggling on earth with the hope of eternal happiness after we pass on. Angels are among the Church Triumphant-souls now enjoying eternal happiness in heaven. The Church Suffering are the souls in purgatory.
Good question! :-)
Let's start with basics. CCC #805 states that the Church is the Body of Christ. So that leads us to the question, "Are angels a part of Church?"
We know that the Church joins with the angels to adore God.
From CCC #334, "the whole life of the Church benefits from the mysterious and powerful help of angels"
CCC#329, "With their whole beings the angels are servants and messengers of God"
these seem to me to imply that the angels are not a part of the Church (which is the Body of Christ).
But now Alvina leaves me with another question....because i always thought that, through the Eucharistic Banquet, ALL (baptized people) are a part of the Body of Christ...living and dead.
can you be part of the "Body of Christ" without consuming Him? Are the angels capable of consumption?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
Our separated brethren are still considered part of the Body of Christ. It is baptism that makes us a part of the Body of Christ. Not consumption.
I was taught that the traditional reason why Lucifer/santan fell from grace was because he envied the plan God had for man.
391 Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.266 Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called "Satan" or the "devil".267 The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: "The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became evil by their own doing."268
392 Scripture speaks of a sin of these angels.269 This "fall" consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign. We find a reflection of that rebellion in the tempter's words to our first parents: "You will be like God."270 The devil "has sinned from the beginning"; he is "a liar and the father of lies".271
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels' sin unforgivable. "There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death."272
394 Scripture witnesses to the disastrous influence of the one Jesus calls "a murderer from the beginning", who would even try to divert Jesus from the mission received from his Father.273 "The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil."274 In its consequences the gravest of these works was the mendacious seduction that led man to disobey God.
395 The power of Satan is, nonetheless, not infinite. He is only a creature, powerful from the fact that he is pure spirit, but still a creature. He cannot prevent the building up of God's reign. Although Satan may act in the world out of hatred for God and his kingdom in Christ Jesus, and although his action may cause grave injuries - of a spiritual nature and, indirectly, even of a physical nature- to each man and to society, the action is permitted by divine providence which with strength and gentleness guides human and cosmic history. It is a great mystery that providence should permit diabolical activity, but "we know that in everything God works for good with those who love him."275
In the Holy Love of God I am your brother in Christ and my name is Royal
then the angels are not part as they were never baptized?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
Our separated brethren
which are you speaking of or is it all that profess Christ as Savior?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
May have found my own answer:
The incorporation in Christ of every baptised person in the name of the Holy Trinity builds up the one Body of Christ, a mysterious reality of grace which no additional divergence can cancel or remove. The Directory for the Application of the Principles of the Norms on Ecumenism (1993) offering a compendium of the Concilar directions and the significance of post-Conciliar achievements summarises thus: «By the sacrament of Baptism a person is truly incorporated into Christ and into his Church and is reborn to a sharing of the divine life. Baptism of itself then constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn» (92). And it is precisely on the sacrament of Baptism that the Directory bases «communion in life and spiritual activity among the baptised» (numbers 92-160).
JESUS CHRIST ONE LORD OF ALL CHRISTIANS
Eleuterio F. Fortino
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
Christ "with all his angels"
331 Christ is the centre of the angelic world. They are his angels: "When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him. . "191 They belong to him because they were created through and for him: "for in him all things were created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities - all things were created through him and for him."192 They belong to him still more because he has made them messengers of his saving plan: "Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to serve, for the sake of those who are to obtain salvation?"193
332 Angels have been present since creation and throughout the history of salvation, announcing this salvation from afar or near and serving the accomplishment of the divine plan: they closed the earthly paradise; protected Lot; saved Hagar and her child; stayed Abraham's hand; communicated the law by their ministry; led the People of God; announced births and callings; and assisted the prophets, just to cite a few examples.194 Finally, the angel Gabriel announced the birth of the Precursor and that of Jesus himself.195
333 From the Incarnation to the Ascension, the life of the Word incarnate is surrounded by the adoration and service of angels. When God "brings the firstborn into the world, he says: 'Let all God's angels worship him.'"196 Their song of praise at the birth of Christ has not ceased resounding in the Church's praise: "Glory to God in the highest!"197 They protect Jesus in his infancy, serve him in the desert, strengthen him in his agony in the garden, when he could have been saved by them from the hands of his enemies as Israel had been.198 Again, it is the angels who "evangelize" by proclaiming the Good News of Christ's Incarnation and Resurrection.199 They will be present at Christ's return, which they will announce, to serve at his judgement.200
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
they have never sinned...HMMM
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
lpioch, pouliot - what do you think?
then the angels are not part as they were never baptized?
And thanks for the judgement, again, brother
And who are "we", do you have a mouse in your pocket or possibly you have been elevated to a position of authority within the Church?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
So the angels in heaven are incapable of making the decision that Lucifer and his followers made? Were they created in a different way? Possibly like you, who can do know wrong?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
David... the thomistic theology is this:
1) Angles are so close to God that they enjoy the beautific vision
this is because they are in heaven
2) one cannot enjoy the beautific vision without it imparting to you the grace of being unable to commit a sin.
You are not unabled because you are incapbable but because you see the face of God his overwealming goodness and love overpowers even the slightest urge to sin so it no longer exists within you
3) when the angles where first created , before they recieved the beutific vision they were each given full knowledge of God's plan for creation , it was at this point in time that each of them choose once and for all to accept God's plan or reject it. Those that rejected it became devils.
So the angles , unlike people choose once and for all, when they were created, what side they would be on.
There is no redeption for them because they are much more absolute creatures then we are. It is not in thier nature to change as easily as we do. so baptism would be useless for them.
Let us go back to the beginning.
The question I post here is: "Are angels part of the Body of Christ?"
I would answer yes.
The Church is the Body of Christ and it is composed (I was taught in school a million years ago) of the Church militant on earth, the Church suffering in purgatory and the Church triumphant in heaven. The Church triumphant is composed of all those in heaven, including angels, who praise and glorify God always.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
“Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. God help me"
I'm still not sure.
This is a really good question.
My next part to think about (for myself) is {and I know the limitations of asking a "timing" question}:
WAS there a Body of Christ "before" Christ became man?
I think not. There was no one (human) in Heaven because the redemption had not yet occurred.
{I reitterate that I do recognize the limitations of using "before", etc. with purely spiritual matters.}
However, the angels WERE in Heaven before Christ became man.
..... just thinking out loud ....
Dear Noel, My misunderstanding of the question was: do the angels consume the body and blood of Christ as bread and wine?
Looking at the question through your eyes, I agree with your vision.
A Saint once said( I do not know the name of the saint, I think maybe Ignatius) that the angels [if it were possible for them to envy] do envy man's redemption by Christ and long for Christ in his body and blood as in communion.
My misunderstanding of pouliot's question was focused on the body and blood as bread and wine known as communion [of Saints].In the Holy Love of God I am your brother in Christ and my name is Royal
My brief reading through Pope Pius's Encyclical leads me to further believe that angels are NOT a part of the Mystical Body of Christ. Basically because angels do not SHARE THE SAME NATURE with Christ (and a head must share the same nature with the body), but through the grace of God, humans do.
At any rate, the answer seems to be here.
This is taken from Pope Pius XII "On the Mystical Body of Christ" (emphasis added):
43. We begin with the similarity which we see existing between Head and body, in that they have the same nature; and in this connection it must be observed that our nature, although inferior to that of the angels, nevertheless through God's goodness has risen above it: "For Christ," as Aquinas says, "is Head of the angels; for even in His humanity He is superior to angels… Even as man He illumines the angelic intellect and influences the angelic will. But in respect to similarity of nature Christ is not Head of the angels, because He did not take hold of the angels—to quote the Apostle—but of the seed of Abraham."[72] And Christ not only took our nature; He became one of our flesh and blood with a frail body that should suffer and die. But "if the Word emptied himself taking the form of a slave,"[73] it was that He might make His brothers according to the flesh partakers of the divine nature,[74] through sanctifying grace in this earthly exile, in heaven through the joys of eternal bliss. For the reason why the only-begotten Son of the Eternal Father willed to be a son of man was that we might be made conformed to the image of the Son of God[75] and be renewed according to the image of Him who created us.[76] Let all those, then, who glory in the name of Christian, look to our Divine Savior as the most exalted and the most perfect exemplar of all virtues; but let them also, by careful avoidance of sin and assiduous practice of virtue, bear witness by their conduct to His teaching and life, so that when the Lord shall appear they may be like unto Him and see Him as He is.[77]
47. It is the will of Jesus Christ that the whole body of the Church, no less than the individual members, should resemble Him.
Royal
do the angels consume the body and blood of Christ as bread and wine?
No, because they are pure spirits.
Lpioch
WAS there a Body of Christ "before" Christ became man?
Prior to the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles the Church did not exist (Acts 2:1).
I may be completely wrong. The Church and the Pope, when matters of faith and morals to be held by all the faithful are at issue, are infallible. However we can speculate.
I think here we are lay people and we express (sometimes strongly) our views, knowing that we may be in error and we are obedient to the Holy Church with its unholy members
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
“Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. God help me"
"WAS there a Body of Christ "before" Christ became man?"
It is possible to answer this question yes or no and it is a point of contention amongst theologians.
Certainly christ body is a historical body that exists within time, but God exists outside of time and cannot be what he was not. there is a great mystery in this.
so baptism would be useless for them.
and without baptism, you cannot become part of the Body of Christ...
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
David... the thomistic theology is this:
and this is a theology or Church doctrine?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
Fishman
The incarnation was a historical event. God became man at a definite time in human history.
David
Baptism restores us to the friendship with God that was lost due to the sin of our first parents. Thus angels do not need baptism. Also Thomistic theology is not infallible. Thomas was wrong about the immaculate conception.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
“Here I stand. I cannot do otherwise. God help me"
but it is by Baptism that we enter into the mystical Body of Christ?
Is supper past or are you approaching that time? Either way, enjoy.
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon. He made it known by sending 'his angel' to 'his servant John',
Peace
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