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Anglican Communion Petitions for Union with Rome

(42 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by Protect the Rock
  • Latest reply from Protect the Rock

1 2
Protect the Rock - Moderator

This is somewhat stunning... 

Traditional Anglican Communion Petitions Rome for Union
10/18/2007

The College of Bishops of the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) recently petitioned for “full, corporate, sacramental union” with the Roman Catholic Church recently.

The appeal for union was debated during a meeting of bishops in Portsmouth, England during the first week of October. It was delivered in a letter, which was signed by all the bishops present. The letter was delivered personally to the Holy See by the Most Rev. John Hepworth, Primate of TAC, and two other bishops selected by the college.

Bishop David Moyer, Bishop of the Armed Forces for the U.S. branch of TAC and rector of Good Shepherd Church, Rosemont, Pa., said the college agreed not to discuss the appeal or the contents of the letter until after the Vatican has responded. Customarily the Roman Catholic Church does not announce ahead of time when it will make a decision public.

With approximately 100 congregations in the U.S., the Anglican Church in America (ACA) is among the largest of several “Continuing Churches” which emerged from the Affirmation of St. Louis and the 1977 gathering of former Episcopalians and other Anglicans. The ACA is the American branch of TAC, a worldwide association of orthodox Anglican churches, working to maintain the catholic faith and resist the secularization of the Church. TAC claims more than 400,000 members on six continents. Neither TAC nor the ACA are among the Common Cause Partnership of Anglicans led by Bishop Robert Duncan of Pittsburgh.

Posted 1 year ago #
dado - Member

Wow, Praise be to God!

Dado

AMDG

Posted 1 year ago #
noelfitz - Member

P the R

Thank you for your post.

Perhaps we should all pray more fervently for Anglicans/Episcopalians.  They are close to us.

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
cool
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
hey didn't I tell you this would happen?  

Jesus is bringing the faithful to Him together under one branch.
Yet within Catholic rites, they still need to give up these sects
and become One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.  

May the Blood of Christ continue to Pour out its Divine Graces.
Come O Lord Jesus and make us one.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
Bhokuto: For Pete's sake...literally. Give it up about the rites. From Sacrosanctum Concilium (Vatican II)
"4. Lastly, in faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that holy Mother Church holds all lawfully acknowledged rites to be of equal right and dignity; that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way. The Council also desires that, where necessary, the rites be revised carefully in the light of sound tradition, and that they be given new vigor to meet the circumstances and needs of modern times."
[Emphasis mine]. If you would do away with them you would make yourself greater than "holy Mother Church." Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member

micheal -- i think you two are violently agreeing on this one.

a 'sect' is any group that does not follow a 'lawfully acknoledge rite' .

To my knowledge there is not yet a 'anglican right' within the universal church, which is not to say one can't be allowed or created.

 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
Christopher: Reading B's posts from the Judas thread, I believe that he/she thinks that the other rites in the Church are a sign of dis-unity. That they represent man-made constructs that divide rather than serve to unite Christ's Body. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
the other rites are there because of differences.  Greek, Roman, Byzantine, so forth.
Not in union.  You do not understand this at all.  You are still, oh, that's good they agree
on something.  Blind you are if they agreed, they would give up their Flag.

and Michael you still do not understand 'Church'  your idea of Church is still relatively
Mass.  Mass is the pedstal the cornerstone.  Church is all the members within Christ's Body.

What is a pedstal in spiritual terms?

What is a cornerstone in spiritual terms?

Your intellect is astounding, I'd hate to be your wife.  No straight line.  

Interesting thing is that, you have so many unanswered questions, which says that your soul is really searching, listen to it instead of running around, be still and find the inner peace.

Peace


Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member

B -- Do you understand the difference between the rights that are in union and the rights that are not.

It is true that some of the greek rights are not in union with rome but man of them in fact are.

the word right means a set of external expression of the faith. 

Right differ by things like 'which laguage is required at mass' or 'weather priest faces the congregation or away from it'.

Do we all have to do the same thing to be in union and one church?

if we all call the pope our leader and christ our head and we all fallow christ and the laws of the church and all have the same beliefes.

Are we not all one church regarless of weather we cross our selves with our left or right hand or celebrate christ birth on different dates?  

Here is a list of all the 'rights' that are part of the undivied universal church of God.

 

http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm

Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite ( Novus ordu)

Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite (sometime called trinatine)

Anglican Use ( I guess I was wrong there is one for them already)

Mozarabic Ambrosian Bragan Dominican Carmelite Carthusian

Maronite – Never separated from Rome. ( we fought the crusades to protect many of these peoples ancestors).

 Syriac Malankarese Chaldean Syro–Malabarese  ARMENIAN

Albanian Belarussian/Byelorussian Belarussian/ByelorussianBulgarianCzech –• Krizevci –• Greek –• Hungarian• Italo–Albanian –• Melkite –• RomanianRussianRuthenian –• Slovak –• Ukrainian.• CopticEthiopian/Abyssinian

All of these groups have different 'rights' but together we form one church.

 

What this article is about is a proment group looking to come into full union with rome within the anglican rite.

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

The Anglican Use Liturgy
in the Roman Catholic Church

 

provided by Dave Brown

In 1980, His Holiness Pope John Paul II granted a Pastoral Provision for the establishment of parishes composed of former Episcopalians which could use a modified liturgy from _The Book of Common Prayer_. There are, at present, six parishes in the USA now using the Anglican Use liturgy. (There are other groups now forming. Canonically, any groups seeking permission to use the Anglican Use liturgy must be composed of former Episcopalians. But once permission is given any Catholic may participate.) These parishes are in the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church, but permitted to have their own distinctive liturgy and also permitted to follow their own customs at Mass.

 

for the complete Anglican Use Liturgy click this link

http://www.cin.org/anguse.html

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

A thought.

We are told to pray unceasingly and with faith our prayers will be answered.

Jesus prayed that we would be one.

I think we are all in agreement in this forum that He hasten His will.

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
B: So you are puting yourself above the Church. You are making of yourself a seperate religion that is not in union with the See of Peter. I provided you with with a teaching from the magisterium. This is not based on my understanding of the Church. This is the Holy Spirit's gift of the Church to us. Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
ricella - Member
we make this world the better place to live in togetherness prayer unceasingly. union is a good thing, this mean that our prayer will become much and greater.
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Church is Christ.

Body of Christ
Christ the Head of the Church
who are the memebers?
What are their functions to each other?
What are their functions or purpose to the world?
What is the Goal of the Church?
Why do we have Sacraments?
Why was Mass created?
What is Mass?
What is your vocation within the Church?
Can you identify vocations of other members without their help in telling you?

You're still not seeing Church.  By you saying I make myself an authority
you have this mind set.  You don't get it.  Look in the mirror.
You don't understand how the Holy Spirit works.  Jesus said as the wind comes from the west and goes wheresover it listeth so is the Spirit.  You cannot know it's movements or where it's going because it is looking for souls to convert.  But when the Spirit is in you you can know. This where most Catholics get hung up.  The Holy Spirit is all over is basically what Jesus is saying and in each of us who become regenerated.  The Spirit teaches us is what Jesus says, and so do His Apostles.    Better study.

Holy Spirit, open what is closed, soften what is hard, enliven what is dead.  Amen

Not by might nor by power but by my spirit says the Lord.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
B: I'm trying to be very careful in explaining things. Yes, I concede that we are the Body of Christ. But Christ left a magisterial Church on earth with Peter as its head. It is this Church that gives us the Bible, that gives us right interpretation of Scripture, that safeguards the Sacraments and the Deposit of Faith. By discarding other rights, you do the equivalent of making every member of the body exactly the same. If only the Latin rite were extant, Christ's body could be all hands and no head, or heart, or feet. By saying that some ambiguous "we" are the Church or that "people" are the Church you don't go far enough. I am not equal to a priest in the Church, or a bishop, or pope. I have a role to fulfill, to be sure, but I cannot administer all of the Sacraments as a bishop can. To say, then, that all of the Church should be one rite, you set yourself against the true "We" of the Church - the priests and bishops and laypeople in union with the pope. You...Bhokuto...have decided that we should all be one rite even though the pope and bishops say that we want to maintain and foster the growth of the Particular Churches in the world. I don't want you to be an authority, B. I want you to see the beauty with which God has gifted us by giving us so many rites in our One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Michael, I agree with bhokuto. The problem that is becoming evermore evident is that within each Rite there is currently a thread of individualism growing that is threatening to break the one body into many parts. Bhokuto is saying that if the formation of individual Rites does not lead the church to become one body, then there is a great danger in allowing more than one Rite. Perhaps bhokuto has been around more than you Michael as I know what he is talking about and I am certain Cardinal Ratzinger knows also as Prefect for Doctrine he continually corrected errors of the individual Rites. One specifically comes to mind in the gluten free Eucharist or rice Eucharist which Cardinal Ratzinger advised Pope John Paul 11 to deny which is currently being promoted by the Benedictine Convents. Also the tidal wave of Jesuits calling for marriage of Priests. I am certain that Christ intended that we become one body and bhokuto has every rite[no pun intended]to be concerned at this moment in history, especially in the United States where independance is valued greatly beyond unity, especially in religion, that is why we have the largest body of non Catholic christians in the world and growing into smaller and smaller more diverse sects of belief and losing any resemblance to the orginal Christ that we know.

See the link to the ordinary rites: http://www.canticanova.com/articles/misc/art7ag1.htm

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
Y: What do rice wafers and rogue Jesuits have to do with the Particular Churches? See my first post regarding what the Church actually says regarding preservaion and fostering of these rites, the names of which fishman has so generously provided. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
MREINER16 - Member

The CCC (1208 and 1209) clearly identify and ratify the various rites in the Church:

 

"the diverse liturgical traditions or rites, legitimately recognized, manifest the catholicity of the Church, because they signify and communicate the same mystery of Christ" (CCC 1208)

 

"The criterion that assures unity and diversity of liturgical traditions is fidelity to apostolic Tradition, i.e. the communion in the faith and the sacraments received from the apostles, a communion that is both signified and guaranteed by apostolic succession" (CCC 1209)

 

The deep mystery of Christ is so rich that the Church recogizes that it simply cannot be contained or adequately expressed by the Roman rite alone. This is why Holy Mother Church recignizes and in fact wants to foster the other legitimate rites of the Church.

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Michael, rice wafers and rogue Jesuits are partially responsible for the creation of the position Cardinal Ratzinger held for many years, Prefect for the Doctrine responsible for Doctrinal integrity of the Catholic church. Your assumption that Catholics are generally faithful is false and misleading. Only Catholics in union are faithful. That is the thrust of bhokuto's affective reasoning. 

Without a mechanism in place to maintain unity, the rites would simply break the body of Christ.

 In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Y,

Thank you.

God loves you very much.  


Michael,

St. Peter says we are a holy nation, a royal priesthood, all of us.
The Vocation on earth of Priests Of the Church is not what this is referring to totally separate.  It is referring to all who come to True Faith.  Then you must fill the shoes.

You don't understand Church yet.  Keep reading.  At somepoint the
light bulb with start to come on.

1 John As He is so are we in this world.  He here is Jesus, If Jesus is a Priest So Are we but we are not High Priest.  and if Priests then Heirs  somewhere it says Joing Heirs and whatever else there is to be inherited that God has given to us, read to find out.  Adoption, words like this.  

We have the Kings Blood flowing through our Spiritual Veins.
Amen.  To Know God means to uncover the layers.  When you look at
a hamburger, on the outside it is just meat.  What's inside?  The ingredients. What makes up the ingredients?  God is this way.  You see
God on the surface but what's inside?

Now the Priests who are consecrating the Host and taking confessions and the other 1000 things they do is a Service to God and His people because it is necessary.  You and I have a vocation as priests, small caps.  

You are a priest in your home, in your work place in wherever you go.  So am I and Y, and all the others here.  

We are not ordained by bishops as in going through the schooling
and such because they are 'called' to represent Christ in a higher calling.
But, We were made priests from the onset of the Church.  Just no one really paid much attention to it.


I Peter
2:9. But you are a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:
Vos autem genus electum regale sacerdotium gens sancta populus adquisitionis ut virtutes adnuntietis eius qui de tenebris vos vocavit in admirabile lumen suum

Revelationsn 5
5:10. And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
Et fecisti eos Deo nostro regnum et sacerdotes et regnabunt super terram

It's amazing what the scriptures tell us what we are. Should spend more time in it.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
noelfitz - Member

Y

You wrote:

rice wafers and rogue Jesuits are partially responsible for the creation of the position Cardinal Ratzinger held for many years, Prefect for the Doctrine responsible for Doctrinal integrity of the Catholic church.

Please spell out for me the position, partially caused by rogue Jesuits, that Cardinal Ratzinger held.  As Pope Benedict XVI does he still hold the position?

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Noel, Here is the history of Cardinal Ratzinger's appointments in the Catholic church:

1981
On November 25, Ratzinger accepts Pope John Paul II's invitation to take over as Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

1986
On July 10, Pope John Paul II appointed Cardinal Ratzinger head of a 12-member commission responsible for drafting the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The text was released in French in 1992 and in English in 1994.

1998
On November 6, Ratzinger is elected vice dean of the College of Cardinals.

2002
On November 30, The Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, approved his election, by the order of cardinal bishops, as dean of the College of Cardinals.

2005
On April 19, Cardinal Ratzinger was elected Bishop of Rome, and took the name Benedict XVI. 
Spelling out the details of Cardinal Ratzinger's job description would take several pages so I am providing a link at the Vatican: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/index.htm
Pope Benedict XVI does not have this duty any longer. I am not certain who he promoted to accept the position.
This position at the Vatican evaluates threats to the Catholic church within and without from heresy and error. Jokingly I suppose you can say he was the church's antivirus program insofar as faith issues are concerened.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
Noel, I though you may be interested in this article from Ireland:

ZE07101903 - 2007-10-19
Permalink: http://www.zenit.org/article-20785?l=english

Irish Prelate Hoping for Papal Visit

DUBLIN, Ireland, OCT. 19, 2007 (Zenit.org).- The archbishop of Dublin offered his congratulations to Archbishop Sean Brady of Armagh, who shall soon be made a cardinal.

At the inaugural Irish Institute of New York lecture at Glucksman House in Greenwich Village on Thursday, Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin said that his brother archbishop "has quietly, day by day, used his wonderful talents as a listener and a bridge builder in sustaining the peace process."

The Dublin prelate, former secretary of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, also speculated that Benedict XVI's decision to elevate Archbishop Brady to cardinal was a sign that the Pontiff would like to visit Northern Ireland.

Archbishop Martin said, "Such a visit, alongside one of Queen Elizabeth to Dublin, would have symbolic meaning of ending an era of our history and opening to something new, North and South."

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
noelfitz - Member

Y

Many thanks for your two posts to me. 

The archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Ryan, is excellent.  

I was interested in the information you sent.

 

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
Y: All of your posts are interesting but don't address why we need to get rid of the various rites in the Catholic Church. Are you saying that a particular rite has taken it upon itself to use invalid Eucharistic matter in its celebrations? There has been more than one rite for well over a millenium. That a splinter group of Benedictines or Jesuits-on-the-loose may be doing something wrong is a distinctly seperate subject. If you want to disagree with the full magisterium of the Church, that the distinct rites are to be preserved and fostered,...well, that's up to you. The rites are not some sort of "individual expression" apart from Rome but rather, joined with Rome, they are expressions by different peoples about how the Sacraments are celebrated. Where have you found that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is investigating an entire rite? Finally, I don't assume that most Catholics are faithful...neither do I assume that they aren't. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
noelfitz - Member

I write that different rites are right.

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
Nicely done, Noel. Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member

What is the difference?

The difference is they share something unlike and still have commonality.

What St. Paul states is this entirely, yet there is inspired words, till we all come in the unity of a perfect man meaning Christ.  So what does this mean today?  with all the different rites and their differences, there is no unity.  That's the bottom line.  I'll keep my flag and you keep yours, we have commonality but we do not agree on all points.  This is not coming into unity unto a perfect man.  

So what say you about this particular scripture?  That it is false and hersay?  That St.Paul was not being guided by the Holy Spirit? or maybe
the translation isn't clean?  All these answers say "I do not believe" in this
point in scritpure.

A while back when I put out a verse about Jesus saying and "one of you is a devil" you said Jesus was synanomizing.  Jesus is Truth, no lie is of the Truth.  Jesus your Lord does not falsify nor tell lies nor say derrogatory statements.  You showed me what 99% of people who do not take what Jesus says, literally.  

Oh, wasn't being literal.  I told you before, you are intellectually based, and your faith in Christ is not assured from my point of veiw.  You have doubts and it lingers and jangles around.  

I believe you should take a deep look inside and find out what your heart is telling you.

Finally put all your affections on things above rather than on things below.  That means your heart must set up into Heaven.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
B: The difference is they share something unlike and still have commonality. I don't even know what that means. All I can say to that is that the commonality is that each retains the faith as handed us by Jesus and the Holy Spirit. There is perfect unity and harmony among the rites of the Roman Catholic Church. How the celebration of the Sacraments is expressed may vary, but there is no doubt among any of the faithful in line with Rome about the validity or lawfulness of those rites, if properly practiced. You may as well ask why God doesn't make us all gray in color, or all of the same ethnic background. Though God is Simple, our variety is a true expression of His Vastness, of just how much His Simplicity is all-encompassing as we reflect His Image and Likeness. The same is true for the rites. As to your comment about "one of you is a devil," I think I suggested that you are reading too much into it because, taken literally, you are saying that Judas is a being of a fallen angelic nature, and not even human. I don't believe that either Jesus or you mean to be that literal - so the Church is the proper authority to interpret that passage. Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #

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