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Dissenting Priest Fr. Beck

(41 posts)

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Tom More - Inactive
Fr. Edward L. Beck has a weblog http://fatheredwardbeck.blogspot.com/ in which he wrote an entry (09/07/07) entitled, Sex and Power in the Catholic Church. In it he called for more dialogue on, "human sexuality, priestly celibacy, women priests and hierarchical authority."

He concluded that the root cause of the abuse scandal is an "unhealthy dominiation" by the heirarchy of the Church. I disagree with his conclusion and left a comment to that effect. I wrote that I believe the root cause of the scandal is "homosexual priests and bishops and those who cover-up for them".

Well apparently the call for dialogue is over because his entry and my comment have mysteriously disappeared from his weblog and I have been blocked from commenting

It is okay to question the Vatican but don't dare question Fr. Beck.

Posted 1 year ago #
mkochan - Moderator
Next time make sure you get a screen shot!
Posted 1 year ago #
mkochan - Moderator

Well, well -- look what a little Googling can do:

SEX AND POWER IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

5:01 AM PDT, September 7, 2007
A Roman Catholic bishop down under is causing quite a stir. Bishop Geoffrey Robinson of Sydney, who is being called “another Luther” in the Australian press, says in his just published book, Confronting Sex and Power in the Catholic Church, that the Church must change its beliefs about sexuality and the authority of the Pope if it is to have any credibility. His words have sparked a fire that may well become a raging inferno.

While he is taking heat for his fearless words, Robinson’s courage gives hope to many lay Catholics and priests who long for dialogue about topics that the Church has deemed non-negotiable, and therefore, non-discussable. He writes, “The most loyal person in the kingdom is the person who tells the truth. It's like the emperor with no clothes. I thought now had come the time to speak the truths."

The issues about which Robinson writes, such as human sexuality, priestly celibacy, women priests and hierarchical authority, are usually guarded in an ecclesiastical “no tresspass zone.” Parish priests tiptoe around these potentially lethal minefields with the dexterity of ballet dancers, and preach homilies that say little or nothing about the issues people in the pews care about most. “Can’t we just talk about it?” one frustrated parishioner asked me recently with regards to women's ordination. Well, actually, no, we can’t.

We can’t because the hierarchy and some Catholics seem to interpret questioning as betrayal. A radical move by an minority of Catholics to institute a more traditional Church, complete with a pre-Vatican II, Latin liturgy (with unexpunged, anti-Semitic language), further serves to silence voices calling for an open conversation.

Officially, the Church says it is willing to dialogue about issues of faith and doctrine. A document that Pope Benedict issued when he was Cardinal Ratzinger (Instruction on the Ecclesial Vocation of the Theologian) says that it is permissible to withhold assent, raise questions, and discuss issues. One cannot, however, dissent from official teaching and propose an alternative position. Fair enough. Why then was the Jesuit editor Tom Reese of America magazine forced by the Vatican to resign his post in 2005 for allowing articles that questioned Vatican views and Church teaching? What better forum to express differing opinions than in a Catholic magazine run by the Jesuits, an Order that takes an oath of special allegiance to the Pope? The parishioner’s question persists: Can’t we just talk about it? Or write about it?

Apparently not. The skittishness of the hierarchy of the Church seems rooted in fear that, if they give freedom, they lose power. However, as Bishop Robinson warns, “If the governing image of how to act as a priest is tied to the ideas of lordship and control, then, no matter how benevolently ministry is carried out, an unhealthy domination and subservience will be present.” That unhealthy dominiation, the root problem in the sex abuse scandal, will continue to plague the Church unless it includes more people in decision-making and it promotes official forums for people to talk about the issues that matter most to them.

Historically, Church doctrine often has shifted when believers have challenged what no longer seemed logical or relevant, thus revealing faith and doctrine as evolving realities shaped by living communities. Anecdotal evidence suggests that at Galileo’s trial before the Inquisition in 1633, when he was forced to recant his belief that the earth moved around the sun, as Galileo walked away, he muttered, “E pur si muove.” (“And it still moves.”) I can think of no better anthem for our Church today.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
I already saved the page and I have already submitted a post on Amazon. It takes 48 hours to approve. We'll see what they say.
Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
Other negative reviews regarding Fr. Beck have been removed from Amazon. You can see a reply to a negative post but the original isn't there.
Posted 1 year ago #
mkochan - Moderator
Really? Can we find out if negaitve reveiws about other people are pulled, too.  See if you can research that -- It'd make and interesting little article for CE.
Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
Here is a link to the cached page which shows the entries in sequence:


If you click on the one comment you see it has been deleted.
Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

I just visited the link and your comment is posted...

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
Yes, it's on the Amazon blog but it is still delted from Father Edward's Corner: http://fatheredwardbeck.blogspot.com/ 
Posted 1 year ago #
Tarheel - Member

Interesting reading.  I agree with you Tom.  It is homosexual priests and bishops that cover up for them. 

Sometime back there was a thread here on CE about a topic similar to this.  The questions was about letting homosexuals in the priesthood.  My comment (I logged in as cajun then) was that if a priest was true to his vows of celibacy his sexual orientation should come in to "play".  I feel that is a priest or man with a heterosexual orientation can retrain from sexual encounters then also a homosexual priest or man can do the same. 

If a priest is celibate then sexual acts aren't part of their lives.  It is all about staying true to their vows.  But I also think priests that feel they cannot honor their vows then they should resign from the priesthood.  (I have a friend that did just that.)

 

It is men that enter the priesthood that remain in the priesthood after such reported and documented cases of abuse or indiscretions that make this vocation less appealing to our youth.  And these priests taint the image of the many wonderful priests serving faithfully.

 

Tarheel

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
Correction to my previous post; the 48 hour Amazon approval is for book reviews, where I placed my first Amazon post. Commenting on an Amazon blog doesn't require an approval. I don't imagine they are very well read.
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

tom, throughout the history of the Catholic church there have been thousands of dissenters such as Fr. Beck and in the future there will be thousands more to come. The church has a person responsible for dealing with those defective and Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was in that post before he became Pope.

As Christ promised Saint Peter, "The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church"

The Catholic church is not a democracy contrary to common American belief. Many Americans are so highly confused about democracy that they think everyone should live in a democracy. Many persons the world over have never known democracy and live simply wonderful lives.

I dont see the worry about Fr. Beck at all, in time he will fade away mostly because he is obviously contradictory to his ordination vows and that will become evident to even the church's enemies with enough interaction because he is a man torn in two, not knowing if he is a Catholic priest, or if he is the devil's advocate.

He needs our prayers of course, in Jesus Holy Name, that he repent of his evil then get back to his important ministry of the sacraments.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
No doubt you are right about the dissenters past, present and to come. The gates of hell will not prevail, but that is no guarantee that there will be any faith left in any particular country.

If dissenters want to use the internet to spread error why not point it out for those that might not know the difference. 


Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Father Edwards Corner is gone...

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

...or maybe not. The link provided by mkochan above no longer points in that direction.

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
noelfitz - Member

Tom 

Before I read your post I never heard of Fr Beck.  

Is giving him publicity helpful? 

However I am saddened to see you have written:   

I believe the root cause of the scandal is "homosexual priests and bishops and those who cover-up for them". 

We Catholics are going through a rough time.  We should hang together or we’ll hang separately. 

To me a priest is an Alter Christus – Another Christ.  I was brought up to respect priests and consider bishops leaders of the Church.  I also do not think it is immoral to be a homosexual, or and alcoholic or to have cancer.  Thus criticizing priests and bishops is not helpful in evangelizing and living a Catholic life.

 

I do think it is important that Catholics unite in our love of each other and the Church.

  

However things are nuanced.

 

I go along with the Church when it says women priests are off the agenda.  I am careful not to mention this issue in my posts.  But this does not prevent me arguing strongly for a married clergy.

Within the Church we have freedom on many issues -   enough to keep active and lively debate.

 

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
In answer to your question, is giving him publicity helpful, I would say yes. Shedding light on darkness is a good thing. He has written numerous books, available at local bookstores, he gives frequent retreats and appears on Fox News and Sirius Radio. So he is out there with a very "soft" misrepresentation of the faith. When he first spoke at my parish, I was unable to find out anything about him and attended with my children. I regret this decision.

As far as my belief about the root cause of the abuse scandal being homosexual priests and bishops, we can discuss that on another thread... But, I stand by my statement, it is a homosexual problem and won't be solved until it is identified and addressed as such.

I love the Church, but I am not a big fan of censorship and lies.


Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

tom, Apparantly you have missed the documentation the church created after the scandal. If you search the vatican webpage www.vatican.va then in the upper right searchbox type in seminarian discernment in US Seminaries, you will find that the Vatican already rewrote the discernment process to filter out and identify men with homosexual inclinations and behavior to discourage them from seminarian formation. Also if you will go to the website www.archspm.org you will need to look through the page and you will find the John Jay legal study of homosexual pedophilia in the priesthood. The problem is very limited to under 1% of the entire priesthood. The protestant clergy suffer more profusely from homosexual pedophilia according to the same study and they are running at about 3% homosexual pedophile protestant ministers.

You may wish to give light to the problem although Christ has advised us, "Do not even mention the deeds of darkness". The ultra-stupidity of this priest's reasoning is obvious to anyone who realizes that any priest is part of a heirarchy and so answers to his Bishop, not the public and so is immediatly at fault when he presents his case to the public which is precisely why he is censored in the first place. His testamony gives scandal not only to the church, also to himself for defiance of his vows of ordination in the eyes of all the church members and his fellow priests and the Magisterium.

The only persons who would possibly give this priest credibility would be the ignorant and if you are accepting the task of instilling wisdom in the ignorant, then the entire world is waiting for you to instruct them.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
Yanastrovich wrote:

"you will find that the Vatican already rewrote the discernment process to filter out and identify men with homosexual inclinations and behavior to discourage them from seminarian formation."




The Vatican has written much that has summarily been ignored. Will real change at the level of the seminaries happen any time soon? Do the Bishops in this country get it? Or even care??  Who knows. The Vatican can write policy all day long, if there is no one to implement it then so what?  In the meantime the damage has been done (and continues) and until (God willing) a new generation of seminarians fills the ranks, the problem will persist. 


Yanastrovich wrote:

"The problem is very limited to under 1% of the entire priesthood." 


I am familar with the John Jay study, but the "Catholic abuse scandal" was committed (95%) by homosexual priests and bishops. That is basically what I said to Fr. Beck, that the root of the scandal is homosexual priests and bishops and those who cover-up for them: I stand by it (regardless of what % of priests are represented.)


The people who give this priest credibility are those that attend his retreats and read his books. There are no shortage of them, call them ignorant if you will.  Unfortunately, the views of this priest are all too common.


Sites like this make it possible to keep people informed.
 

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
tom, I wish you would name the diocese that still does nothing to root out men with homosexual attractions and behavior. I have visited our seminary personally and talked to the candidates and have found no homosexual inclinations and I am trained to find homosexual and other inclinations through psychological exam. Can you name the diocese[s] that you say are allowing this doctrine to be ignored? I would like to know the cities especially.
What you ignore also although I dont believe you cover up is that 95% of all homosexual pedophilia in the USA is perpetrated by the vast majority of protestant ministers in religious occupations and by married fathers in abusive families. The percent of priests involved in pedophelia homosexuality is extremely low way below 1%, I believe it is around .23% which is a 1/4%. Also it was determined the vast majority of accuasatory statements could not be verified due to incredibility and furthermore it was also proven that the vast majority of Bishops did not cover anything up.
I believe your intent to prove the church itself at fault currently is slandered by some malice toward the church. I suggest you consider this seriously in your next confession. At the very least, provide us with some names and parishes to prove your accusations so we can establish your credibility first.
According to John Jay study you are correct that pedophila is largely perpetrated by homosexuals. You are also correct that this priest has no right to make speaking engagements or webpages without the express permission of his Bishop. Will you find out if his Bishop approved this tirade and let us know?Also please give us some names of some Bishops who willfully permit sin in the priesthood then cover it up from parishes, I would like to know their names. Please and Thank you. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
1. I bear no malice toward the Church. I am expressing righteous indignation at the actions of some within the hierarchy.



2. I am sure that there is a whole lot of sexual abuse going on in the protestant community and homes across America... but that it is different thread. My comment was about the CATHOLIC church. My church, the one I am concerned about. If I were protestant I'd be all over the protestant forum.


3.  If the abuse scandal in the CATHOLIC Church is not a homosexual problem, then I don't know what it is. BTW it is not a pedophile issue when it involves post-pubescent boys.


4.  Last but not least, if Fr. Beck doesn't have permission from his bishop, that is a problem and if he does, that is a problem. Either way it is a problem. I am pointing out problems and pointing out the disingenousness of those who demand dialogue and respond with censorship.





 
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

tom, You do bear malice toward the church if you are pointing the finger of blame at Bishops. In order to prove your honesty, you need to name the Bishop that is part of the hierarchy at fault. As such you are naming all Bishops which I know for a fact is a lie. I know many Bishops who would not involve themselves in such deceit.

There is not a priest alive that would sexually molest a man as the risk to his safety would be multiplied. The reason homosexual men choose boys as targets for their molestation is because they pose a lesser risk to safety ie [arrest, accusation, retaliation from friends or family] furthermore the victims are usually also from homes where the father has abandoned the family.

The John Jay study has concluded the sexual abuse was caused by predominantly homosexual men.

Finally, if Fr. Beck has permission from his Bishop then you are barking up the wrong tree. You have a responsibility as a Catholic faithful to question his Bishop, not Fr. Beck as you may have distorted Fr. Beck's assignment from his Bishop in which case your argument with him would be unjust.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
Yanastrovich wrote: "You do bear malice toward the church if you are pointing the finger of blame at Bishops."


No, I don't.  I am blaming the sex-abuse scandal on "homosexual priests and bishops and those who cover-up for them." Not all priests... not all bishops.... just those involved.  If you disagree with my statement, then let's talk about it.


It is my opinion, that the members of the clergy who were in charge at the time of the scandal and cover-up, are not going to be particularly effective at cleaning up the mess and making sure it doesn't happen again.



I don't like dissent from Catholic doctrine and I don't like censorship from people who call for dialogue.


Dissent has many offspring; the sex-abuse scandal is just one of them.




Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Avoid scandal that is what we see in The Gospels.  Because man sins.
Two sides:  Those who scrutinize and those who want salvation for souls.
Christ and the Devil.

Avoid scandal.  Yet, those who did the wrong in the Church, should have been removed quietly and should have dealt properly as a Christian.  Remember the Church on earth is not perfected.  We are part of it.  Have you any works of miracles? Have you introduced others to Christ? Have you given to the poor?  If all the Church members were doing these works, the world would be converted by now.  But seeing that it is not, we have a long ways to go.  We should focus on uniting in Christ out of love laying aside our udnerstanding and seek the Eternal Spirit through The Holy Mother Of God who is FULL of Grace.

Amen.

May the Holy Mother of God crush to hell Satan and all the evil spirits
very soon!

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Eternal Spirit, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be world without end. Amen

Peace, Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

tom, All I am suggesting to speed your discussion is direct contact with the Bishop of this priest in question. You did not answer me when I asked for names that is why I considered your malice. With your acknowledgement of the innocence of many Bishops, I hereby cede to your ambition of finding the guilty parties. As I recommend, the Bishop is in charge, not the priest. The priest merely functions at the discretion of a local Bishop.

The sex abuse scandal is over and has been for quite some time. It is being kept alive by a few diehard scandal lovers who enjoy gossip.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
bhokuto, Christ said, "Even the disbelieving see one whom has risen from the dead they will still not believe". You say if we have done more works in the church the world would be converted. I say no, there are many whom will not convert no matter what we do. As I already wrote to you, Christ said, "Amen, Amen I say to you, they will come in the last days asking for bread."  Christ was serious about Eternal damnation, some may have to face it. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Posted 1 year ago #
Tom More - Inactive
yanastrovich wrote: "All I am suggesting to speed your discussion is direct contact with the Bishop of this priest in question."

On this I agree. Contacting the Bishop is always good advice.
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Y

I think you miss understand, what I'm saying completely.  

Try to imagine what I say, flow .... allow the Eternal Spirit to flow through you.  Precisely, because you read that passage verse you stop.  God never stops he is the tireless one.  He never sleeps.  

Christ tells us to 'imitate' 'be' like the Father on earth.  You failed to see this very 'hidden' aspect of scripture.  God never stops in the face of adversity, He never succumbs to 'I don't want to know you' and quits.  He constantly administors, provides for and wants all to come to Him. He never quits.
We must learn this attitude and engrain it, deep in our souls, minds, consciencousness.  

Without Christ, without Gods graces, without Gods supernatural love, mercy, compassion and forgiveness it is not possible.  Finally without the  Virgin Full of Grace we cannot persevere in Christ.  God gave Mary All graces necessary to help mankind.  Because the first woman, Eve failed to carry Gods wishes.

Mary makes up for the dissappoint Eve gave to God.  Jesus makes up for the dissappointment Adam gave to God.  The Father is pleased greatly by these two, but the taint of Adam and Eve's sin causes Him to grieve
for the fall.  Understand the Father and you will learn to love as He loves.  It won't come over night. It will take much time as I have discovered.  We must ask the Father through Both Jesus and Mary to increase His love in us daily as much was we can during the entire day upto bedtime.

May God have Mercy on us.  Amen.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
Ignatian77 - Inactive

I agree with the Australian clergyman. The Church needs to concern itself with staying relevant, always. The Church is almost 2,000 years old, and has accomplished many truly great things. But, times change, human issues change, our knowledge about the realm of matter changes. Enduring religions keep up with that change. Resistant religions die out.  

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
Ignatian, The church may concern itself with whatever matter it chooses although there is no way possible that Christ will abandon the church. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Posted 1 year ago #

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