Catholic Exchange Forums » Faith and Life

Religion as a Smokescreen

(20 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by yanastrovich
  • Latest reply from yanastrovich

yanastrovich - Inactive

However, the pope also used his address to condemn the use of religion as a justification for violence and war: "Peace is sorely needed" the pope told.

Pope Benedict XVI was quoted condemning the use of religion as justification for violence and war.

Catholics, Protestants, Islamists, Buddhists are all religions.

 Why do Catholics justify violence and war in the name of religion?

and do the Islamist justify violence and war or does all war come from:

People that are not religious but are using religion as a smokescreen to justify the war and killing?

Posted 1 year ago #
Jakes - Moderator

After posting this, I'm going to remain silent (in the meantime praying for him during that silence), toward Y's penchant for monopolizing (check the index), with rancor (check a few of his posts), the time and goodwill of so many intelligent and well-motivated readers of topics on these forums.

Should - as in the past - his easily recognized diatribes and style reappear - again - under a further alias, I'll post again the intention stated above and then refrain from giving encouragement to that newly-assumed personna.

May God bless you, Y.

Peace,        Jakes 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
MattyMattyChooChoo - Inactive

@Y

 

Comparing Catholics and Islamists is absurd.  Your attempt to draw a common ideology between the two and violence only leads me to believe that any attempts to convince you otherwise would be a waste of time.

 

I will pray for your conversion.

 

 

 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
jakes, Assuming you are Catholic, why do you persecute me?  My penwriting alias is honest[ also I am told, quite pretty and charming, don't you see my portrait?], where is your honesty when you refuse to acknowledge the wisdom of Pope Benedict XVI's insight into the justification of violence? He sees that violent people are falsely proclaiming themselves to be religious when in fact they are non-religious.

Also, nothing is stopping you from monopolizing this forum except yourself. You may certainly make your Catholicity known to us instead of remaining mysteriously silent regarding cheeze as was quoted by GK Chesterton.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

mattymattychoochoo, Apparantly my post went way over your head. I did not compare religions. I pointed out what the Pope describes as non religious persons using religion as a reason for violence.I did not draw the inference, Pope Benedict XVI did. He said quit using religion as an excuse for violence. That includes the Catholic faith. Quit using the Catholic faith as a reason for promoting violence. Quit using Islam as a reason for violence.You are quite right about trying to convince me otherwise, I am absolutely certain that Pope Benedict XVI is correct, violent Catholics and Islamists alike try to use religion to promote violence and he says, stop using religion to promote violence. If you want to promote violence be honest enough to call it what it is....non-religious retaliation in the form of killing motivated by anger and hatred.

Religious Catholics and religious Islamists are not violent. Non religious Catholics and Islamists are violent and use religion as justification for their violence. Do you see the distinction made by Pope Benedict XVI?

 In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

mattymattychoochoo, I will admit there is a common ideology between Catholics and Islamists which was already concurred with by Protect the Rock and that is neither religion supports retaliatory violence in response to attack for the purpose of gaining revenge. You may quote me on that remark and furthermore, check the quality and accuracy of the statement from the catechism of the Catholic faith and from the doctrine of Islam. War and killing is entirely a non religious event with currently many references to religion[holy war] coming from both the USA and Iraq..which Pope Benedict XVI is exposing and condemning as false and misleading misrepresentation of religion and religious values.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Jakes, You said, "His easily recognized diatribes and style"

Thank you for the complement as the meaning of the word in it's original is: Latin diatriba, learned discourse.

I did indeed take the time to become learned.

Your gracious and wholly correct summation is appreciated. You only made one stupid mistake, I am a girl. May God bless you.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Jakes, I wish to offer you an opportunity to correct me. If you have something specific to charge me with I would like to see it in writing. I need more than perceived penchants and insinuated slurs of speech.

Give me something to chew on will you please? Your ambiguous rejection of my post does not tell me where precisely you disagree.

Thank you in advance for any effort you might make at honesty.

May God bless you in the Holy Name of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
Mattymattychoochoo, You wrote, comparing catholics and islamists is absurd. Perhaps you do not read:
WASHINGTON (CNS) -- For the first time, more than 100 senior Muslim leaders from around the world sent a letter to Pope Benedict XVI and other Christian leaders proposing theological similarities as a basis for peace and understanding.

John Esposito, professor and founding director of the Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, smiles as Seyyed Hossein Nasr, professor of Islamic studies at George Washington University, responds to a reporter's question during a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington Oct.11. (CNS photo/Bob Roller)
John Esposito, professor and founding director of the Prince Alwaleed bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, smiles as Seyyed Hossein Nasr, professor of Islamic studies at George Washington University, responds to a reporter's question during a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington Oct.11. (CNS photo/Bob Roller)

"Finding common ground between Muslims and Christians is not simply a matter for polite ecumenical dialogue between selected religious leaders," said 138 Muslim leaders in a letter released Oct. 11 in Washington.

Christians and Muslims "make up more than 55 percent of the world's population, making the relationship between these two religious communities the most important factor in contributing to meaningful peace around the world," they said. "If Muslims and Christians are not at peace, the world cannot be at peace."

As Muslims, "We say to Christians that we are not against them and that Islam is not against them -- so long as they do not wage war against Muslims on account of their religion, oppress them and drive them out of their homes," they said.

The leaders from Asia, Africa, Europe and North America called for Christians and Muslims to "vie with each other only in righteousness and good works."

The letter analyzed particularly two theological similarities found in the Quran and the New Testament: belief in one God and love of neighbor. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member

war is allways to be avoided whenever possible, it is not allways possible or moral to avoid war.

At times there are no other options , even the popes have called for war from time to time to protect the christian nations. 

It woud be wholly innacurate to assert that a christan cannot support a just war. ( in the general case).

 

The justice of speicific wars is a different story.

 

To answer your question however:

why so many people use religion as a smokescreen for violence

the anwer is simple ( original sin).

We are all sinners and we will never escape war, find justice , establish world peace or live perfectly the love of God in this lifetime. 

 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
fishman, Pope Benedict XVI is rewriting the catechism to denounce preemptive war as unjust. The invasion of Iraq has been declared unjust by the Vatican. I would not suggest that all war is unjust. I am saying American Catholics get out of Iraq, the invasion has been declared unjust.In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member

The invasion was I agree in fact unjust.

The occupation however is not, it is obligatory because we owe the iraqui people whatever sacrafice it takes to ensure them at least as good a quality of life as we deprived them of with our unjust actions.

 

We must restore what we destroyed by our sinfulness , which is a stable government capable for protecting it's people and providing for the common good of the country before we leave.

 

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

fishman, Pope Benedict XVI recently [within the last two weeks] declared the occupation of Iraq unjust and demanded the USA leave Iraq immediately. Futhermore the American Catholic Conference of Bishops recently [within the last two weeks] demanded that Bush withdraw forces from Iraq immediately.

The Pope only conceded occupation about a year ago with the understanding that USA would stop killing and rebuild. The Vatican was in favor of a rebuild and a restore of the country and it's government peacefully, not an occupational war effort to establish dominance using combat tactics.

Bush deliberately uses religion as a smokescreen declaring the enemy as axis of evil and Islamist extremist when the enemy is not religious Islamist at all, rather Godless violent men. Futhermore the USA is presenting its military as Christian solidiers when Christ is specifically against killing. Just defense does not transgress borders, nor does just defense occupy nations with military threat.

 

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member

well, i've never seen the U.S. present it's military as christian soliders in any media outlet in the united states.  Which country do you live in?

Last I checked we have a secularlist mililtary of volenteers.

 

Also, could you find me the refrence from the pope.  I doubt he called for immidate withdrawl from iraqu ( a coarse of action that would unquestionably cause more bloodsheed then not).  he probably called for expediant withdraw of forces from the country.  Expedience in this case is probably 3 - 10 years.

 

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

fishman, George Bush declared himself a Christian and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, further he declared Iraq as the "axis of evil". Evil is a religious term describing one who has as his father, the devil.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
If he had declared a religious war , he would be killing people because of thier religion, which might have had a better chance and praticle success then what he has done.  Still there are some things which, once they have been started , on does not have the right to withdraw from even if it means your own demise.
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
fishman, Pres Bush has ordered the killing of Islamists since the war invasion began. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member

how do you define Islamists? So far as I know he'd have to be in a different country to be killing people who didn't follow islam.  My impression is he is ordering the killing or arrest of the people who keep bombing the citizens of the country as any responsible goverment agency would do.  Islamist or chirstian, if you bomb government building is U.S controlled territory you should expect consaquences.

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

fishman, And so a handful of people who bomb a government building leads to the killing and death of hundreds and thousands of Iraqi's. In the military when I was there they called that overkill. You know as well as I do the reason the Pope is involved is because Iraqi Catholics are being killed and tortured as well. Pres Bush clearly identified Islamists as his target. The Pope said stop using religion as an excuse for war! [meaning both the US and Al Quaida

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen

Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive
fishman, The US Military is not secularistsec·u·lar·ism  [sek-yuh-luh-riz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1.secular spirit or tendency, esp. a system of political or social philosophy that rejects all forms of religious faith and worship.
:

Table 5

Religious Preferences of the U.S. Population and

Military Personnel, 2001

Civilians

Religious preference Military Ages 20-39 Ages 18+

All preferences 100 100 100

Protestant 35 45 53

Catholic/orthodox 22 26 25

Other Christian 11 3 2

Atheist/no religion 21 19 14

Jewish — 1 2

Muslim/Islam — 1 1

Buddhist/Hindu — 2 1

Other religions/ unknown/refused 11 3 2

— Less than 0.5 percent.

Note: Other Christian includes Christian and Missionary Alliance, Church of God, Seventh Day

Adventist, Assemblies of God, and other Christian religions.

Sources: DoD Defense Manpower Data Center

Religion in Iraq

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The major religion is Islam, which is practiced by about 95% of Iraqis.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.

Donate

Welcome to our redesigned site. Your continued support will make further improvements possible. Please click here to donate.

CE Spotlight

Faith Factory

Champions of Faith Ad

Radio & Podcasts


Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge