I have heard many Catholics try to imagine what it will be like meeting Christ when our lives are through and we are about to be judged.
Jesus is a Priest and so I believe the first words that Jesus will greet us with are: "Do you have anything to confess"?
After our confession then Jesus will grant to us our final absolution.
From the Holy Scriptures Jesus tells us that he will put on an apron then serve us the most tasty morsels we have ever eaten.
How do you think this meeting will be?
Who said you would not be given a second chance to Redeem yourself?
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
yanastrovich - a second chance to confess ... very much in line with the idea of purgation is it not. ( a second chance to do pennance) .
I know of no support for your idea in the bible or church writing, but as a personal opion i think it a must wonderful thought.
yana - you are drawing distinctions where none are nessary.
( what I said was I liked what you were saying because I found it in harmony with the atonement of purgatory).
michaelme - I can't remember which saint said it but there is a long standing tradition that during each persons last dieing breadth, Jesus comes to them personally and asks them three times to repent.
This is pretty much the same thing yanna is saying, it is pretty hard to make a meaning full distinction between the last 100 millinth of a second of a persons life and 'after they died'.
I agree a person who has died cannot repent and be forgiven , but it is certainly possible for a persons spirit to repent in the last fraction of a second before thier death , even if they are unconsious. God is merciful after all.
I would agree that to be certain about what the church actually teaches you need something more significant then the opinion of 1 priest.
I know a priest who claims the catholic church teaching using birth control is a matter of personal consious. ( which doesn't make that true either).
If the annointing of the sick can be applied to the dead why not baptize the dead while you are at it?
Part of the problem is that a sacrament( a latin word which is derivied from the word meaning oath) requires consent or at least the consent of those who have authority to enter into a contractual realtion for you , as in the case of a infant baptism. In general the theology goes that ones free will becomes in some way fixed after the soul and body are seperated ( which is usually considered to happen very nearly after the last breadth, spiritus in latin means breadth).
here is a question for you that is realted.
Why can't those who are in hell repent in order to avoid thier suffering?
( hint it is the same reason there is no second chance AFTER death).
319. What are the effects of this sacrament?
1520-1523
1532
This sacrament confers a special grace which unites the sick person more intimately to the Passion of Christ for his good and for the good of all the Church. It gives comfort, peace, courage, and even the forgiveness of sins if the sick person is not able to make a confession. Sometimes, if it is the will of God, this sacrament even brings about the restoration of physical health. In any case this Anointing prepares the sick person for the journey to the Father’s House.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
michael, I would not propose the judgement of a priest in error. I am proposing the effect of a priest in personna Christi which is his ordination. The reason Christ is not needed to forgive sin at the time of death is because the priest is in personna Christi. Very few Catholic faithful fully accept the doctrine of personna Christi. Christ specifically desired the effect of the forgiveness of sin when he said to the Apostles, "Whosoever sins you forgive they are forgiven them, whosoever sins you retain, they are retained" To you this transfer of power and authority from Christ to the Priesthood of the Catholic faith may be a fantasy, although to the individual Priests of the church, this effects the full authority of any validly ordained Priest to forgive any sin he chooses to forgive, moreso to forgive all the sins even of a dead man. You do not have the authority to interfere in the ordained ministry of the validly ordained priest to assume he does not have the power, the authority nor the judgement to correctly forgive sins he chooses to forgive. This makes you guilty of presumption regarding the authority of a Priest. The Doctrine of Faith fully upholds the power and the authority of any validly ordained Priest and so does the Vatican as well as the Bishop.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
michael, I copied from you when you wrote:The Code of Canon Law, Canon 1005 allows anointing of the sick "to be administered in a case of doubt whether the sick person has attained the use of reason, is dangerously ill, or is dead."
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
CHAPTER III.
THOSE ON WHOM THE ANOINTING OF THE SICK IS TO BE CONFERRED
Can. 1004 §1. The anointing of the sick can be administered to a member of the faithful who, having reached the use of reason, begins to be in danger due to sickness or old age.
§2. This sacrament can be repeated if the sick person, having recovered, again becomes gravely ill or if the condition becomes more grave during the same illness.
Can. 1005 This sacrament is to be administered in a case of doubt whether the sick person has attained the use of reason, is dangerously ill, or is dead.
Can. 1006 This sacrament is to be conferred on the sick who at least implicitly requested it when they were in control of their faculties.
Can. 1007 The anointing of the sick is not to be conferred upon those who persevere obstinately in manifest grave sin.
As you may see, specifically the Priest[being validly ordained and acting in personna Christi] may forgive the sins of the dead. For you to judge that the priest is invalidly forgiving sin in this case is presumption, which in itself is a sin.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
There is a huge difference between whether there is a case of doubt as to whether or not a person is dead....and simply a person who is dead.
If the priest knows a person is dead, Can. 1005 above does not give the priest the ability to administer the sacrament.
Michael, There is no further documentation. Your interpretation of the authority invested in the Priest from ordination is incorrect. Confer with your Bishop and you will see that the Priest has authority to act in personna Christi in every single act while in performance of duty. You may use my Bishop Harry Flynn, go to webpage www.archspm.org then use the contact email to consult with him. Your presumption is a lack of submission and a hardness of heart to Christ in the personna of His ordained Priest.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
933 Whether their witness is public, as in the religious state, or less public, or even secret, Christ's coming remains for all those consecrated both the origin and rising sun of their life:
934 "Among the Christian faithful by divine institution there exist in the Church sacred ministers, who are also called clerics in law, and other Christian faithful who are also called laity." In both groups there are those Christian faithful who, professing the evangelical counsels, are consecrated to God and so serve the Church's saving mission (cf. CIC, can. 207 § 1, 2).
935 To proclaim the faith and to plant his reign, Christ sends his apostles and their successors. He gives them a share in his own mission. From him they receive the power to act in his person.
936 The Lord made St. Peter the visible foundation of his Church. He entrusted the keys of the Church to him. The bishop of the Church of Rome, successor to St. Peter, is "head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the universal Church on earth" (CIC, can. 331).
937 The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, "supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls" (CD 2).
938 The Bishops, established by the Holy Spirit, succeed the apostles. They are "the visible source and foundation of unity in their own particular Churches" (LG 23).
939 Helped by the priests, their co-workers, and by the deacons, the bishops have the duty of authentically teaching the faith, celebrating divine worship, above all the Eucharist, and guiding their Churches as true pastors. Their responsibility also includes concern for all the Churches, with and under the Pope.
940 "The characteristic of the lay state being a life led in the midst of the world and of secular affairs, lay people are called by God to make of their apostolate, through the vigor of their Christian spirit, a leaven in the world" (AA 2 § 2).
941 Lay people share in Christ's priesthood: ever more united with him, they exhibit the grace of Baptism and Confirmation in all dimensions of their personal family, social and ecclesial lives, and so fulfill the call to holiness addressed to all the baptized.
942 By virtue of their prophetic mission, lay people "are called . . . to be witnesses to Christ in all circumstances and at the very heart of the community of mankind" (GS 43 § 4).
943 By virtue of their kingly mission, lay people have the power to uproot the rule of sin within themselves and in the world, by their self-denial and holiness of life (cf. LG 36).
944 The life consecrated to God is characterized by the public profession of the evangelical counsels of poverty, chastity, and obedience, in a stable state of life recognized by the Church.
945 Already destined for him through Baptism, the person who surrenders himself to the God he loves above all else thereby consecrates himself more intimately to God's service and to the good of the whole Church.
As you may see Michael, whether in public or private or even secret, the Priest is acting in the person of Christ through his ordination.
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
” As you may see Michael, whether in public or private or even secret, the Priest is acting in the person of Christ through his ordination.”Based on your incorrect interpretation of IPC, Fr. Paul Shanley of Boston was acting as Christ while raping children by virtue of his Holy Orders. Is this really the hill you want to die on? You then go further down the path of misdirection by suggesting that I am calling a priest’s ordination invalid; clearly not what I said above. The validity of a Sacrament requires not only the validity of Holy Orders but valid form and matter. So, in the case of Baptism the matter is water and the form is “I baptize you in the Name of the Father…” If a priest decides to use rose petals instead of water, the Baptism isn’t valid. Similarly, a priest may not decide to use pizza and beer to confect the Eucharist, as such is invalid Eucharistic matter. If such were the case we certainly do have the duty to find the priest in error. With respect to Anointing of the Sick (not, by the way, Anointing of the Sick and Dead), canon law and the CCC are clear that a person should be considered “sick” v. “dead.” This is in harmony with Particular Judgment. Just say, “Oops, sorry” and be done with it. BTW, a priest’s ordination, if validly given, is always valid. Even if excommunicated the mark of Holy Orders is retained. Michael
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Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge