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Son of God.. Not God the Son

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Sparcz - Inactive

from New Testament Matthew to Revelation... no mention about God the son. but only Son of God referring to Jesus Christ.

 

Many say Jesus is God incarnate, God made into Human Form.

Question What verse in the Bible?

When and How Trinity Began?

 

I give you some verse contradict the Doctrine of Trinity

Jesus Christ (Son of God)

Created by God Col 1:15

Died Mat. 27:46 / Rev. 1:18

Recognized God the Father

Mat. 27:46 / Rev. 3:12

Have Flesh Lk 24:38-39 Phil.3:3-4

Sean and Touch Luke 24:38

A Man Jn. 8:40 Mat. 27:29

Under God 1 Cor. 15:28

Can Do Nothing without God
Mat. 20:23; 24:36 Jn 5:30 John 14:23

Not Equal with God Phil 2:5-13 Jn. 14:28

 

Holy Spirit

Sent by God John 14:26

Seven Holy Spirit Revelation 5:6

 

God the Father

Creator alone Isaiah 44:24

Immortal 1 Tim.1:17 / Psalm 90:2

Does not Recognized any other God Isaiah 44:8

Spirit Jn 4:23-24 Phil. 3:2-3

Not seen by anyone 1 John 4:12

God not Man Hos. 11:9 Num. 23:19 Acts 2:22

Head of Christ 1 Cor 11:3

Who raised Jesus from the dead Col 2:12 Roman10:9 Jn 2:30-32 Jn.3:15 1Peter1:20 1thes1:1

Almighty Genesis 35:11

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

 6There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. 9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

what version of the Bible would you like to be referenced?

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

above is the NIV

here is the King James

 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 2The same was in the beginning with God.

 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

in regards to the Holy Spirit...

Isaiah 63:11

Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people— where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them

Matthew 1:18

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mark 3:28-29

28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Mark 13:11

Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:15

for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

Luke 12:10

And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Luke 12:12

for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."

Luke 24:45-49

Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

Matthew 28:16-20

 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

John 20:19-23

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Peace be with you Sparce

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

I already read al the Verses that you posted here...

thanks for the Answer...

Mark 3:28-29

28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven.

 

So Bible Said there are 7 Holy Spirit Revelations 5:6 and  not 1. so therefore Trinity is not True. 

 

there are too many differences between  God and Jesus Christ and they know each other according to their Testimony written in the Bible.

no one told that their are all Gods, and their is no statement "God The Son"

John 1:1-2

In Dictionary  "Word" means "Statement",or  "Promise". 

Genesis 17:6-7 stated the Promise of God to Abraham

Word is not the meaning of Christ or even Jesus Christ. 

"God" also means All Powerful. almighty, all knowing. (Adj.)

not Noun.

Incarnation or incarnate do not occur in the Bible.

Now a Mediator is not a mediator of one, But God is One . Gal 3:20

Gal 3:16 and 3:29 Statement about the Promises Made

and the Promise which is Jesus Christ.

Then Jesus also pray to God in this way according to the Bible John 17:1,3 

"Father, The Hour is come; Glorify thy Son, that thy Son also Glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

there is the word Only True God. Singular term "Only" and singular form "God"

if your Belief was true the Bible statement must be like this

Plural term "WE" or "US".. they might know that We are true Gods

plural form Gods. do you agree?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

you do not believe that the evengalist refers to Jesus by the use of the term Word?

If so, how does your religion interpret the balance of chapter 1 of John?

Who is the him through which all things were made?

 

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

what do you make of this...

On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel:
       "O sun, stand still over Gibeon,
       O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."

   So the sun stood still,
       and the moon stopped,
       till the nation avenged itself on  its enemies,
      as it is written in the Book of Jashar.
      The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a man. Surely the LORD was fighting for Israel!

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

How could one who is not God give the Holy Spirit by breathing on someone?

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

the Verse that you use as a proof that Jesus Christ is God, How many God we have? and Also it contradict to the statement of Jesus Christ and God.

Jesus Christ Stated that God is Spirit Jn 4:23-24 Phil. 3:2-3

and He is a Man  Jn. 8:40 Mat. 27:29 Jesus recognized God and called it "My God, My God", Mat. 27:46  Rev. 3:12 "name of my God, City of My God"

God Statement "God is not man"  Hos. 11:9 Num. 23:19 Acts 2:22 and He Does not Recognized any other god Isaiah 44:8

I don't Believe that the Bible has a contradict each others Statements.

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

How could one who is not God give the Holy Spirit by breathing on someone?

may be we call him false Prophet. we have to try him. just look at the other Preacher in our time.. they said they are God's messenger but they preached for their own desire and wealth. they use Bible but if we ask them they don't know how to explain and they don't know what verse to get the answer. sometimes they make some story not related or non-biblical. Even During their worship service, I can't hear them any explanation to the Holy Scriptures but they use it as reference.

 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

hmmm. If you don't mind me asking, what is your faith denomination?

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

 Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

is Jesus a false prophet?

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

the Verse that you use as a proof that Jesus Christ is God, How many God we have? and Also it contradict to the statement of Jesus Christ and God.

I think that is the major difference between Catholics and all the denominations that were spawned from Catholicism. Catholics do not use one verse. We combine all of Sacred Scripture and the faith of our fathers to try and understand that which to some has become indiscernable.

Thomas, the apostle, recognized the risen and glorified Jesus - Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

 Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

John 20:27-29

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

Jesus said he was sent By God...He is not a false Prophet. HE is the last Prophet of God... I believe that Jesus Christ it Mediator, and Son of God.

Jesus Speak to His Apostles, He gave an Authority to the Apostles to preach and forgive sin.

 

your question is

How could one who is "not" God give the Holy Spirit by breathing on someone.

there is the word "not" mean not from God?

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

I like that Verse about Doubting Thomas..

How should we understand Thomas Statement in John 20:28?

When Thomas answered and said "My Lord and My God" was he at this point affirming his faith in the alleged  deity of Jesus or was he in a state  of amazement and disbelief.

I already told you that Jesus Christ is not God. Christ Himself declared that He is a Man

John 8:40 "But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God."

John 4:24 and Luke 24:39 read it in the Bible....


Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

another difference about Catholics and those that would call themselves "true believers" and believers in "Sola Scriptora" is that when faced with something that is meant literally we accept it as such and do not seek to attempt to understand what was going through one's mind when we can read what one said. However, when there is a need for interpretation, we have the teaching authority of the one, Holy, Catholic and apostolic Church, not someone's individual insight into what was written; twisted to suit their eisegesis of Sacred Scripture.

It therefore matters not that you said a truth in that Jesus was a man. For He is such, and He is also God and the Son of God. Eternally begotten of the Father. That is the whole truth.

If your fatrher was a dog than you would be a dog, but since your father is a man you are a man. Jesus' Father is God, by the power of the Holy Spirit, therefore Jesus is God.  All of this is Scripturally based, why do you not believe?

 

and what denomination are you following?

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Wouldn't the eleven disciples have been breaking the commandment of God by worshipping Jesus, and shouldn't Jesus have rebuked them?

Do you not know that the main reason Jesus was condemned was because He forgave sins? In the eyes and minds of the Pharisees this was blasphemy because only God had the authority to forgive sins. And yet Jesus who has that authority breathed the Holy Spirit onto His disciples and commissioned them to go out and preach the Good News baptizing in the name of the Holy Trinity; the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. He then gave this authority to His Church, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

Sparcz,

Just a thought --

We are happy to trade Bible texts with you in helping you see the reasonableness of the teachings of the Catholic church.  But I hope you understand that Catholics do not rely on the Bible to "prove" the Faith. 

The Church venerates Sacred Scripture, of course.  But she also has Sacred Tradition and the teaching office of the Magisterium to give the fullness of the Truth of Jesus Christ.

There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts the Catholic Faith, and there is nothing in the Catholic Faith that contradicts the Bible. The Bible is a Catholic book.

To strain at "proving" the faith by engaging in sword drills with contrasting Bible verses is not going to get you what you are seeking.

Any text, taken out of context, can be used as a pretext.

-- that said, please feel free to continue.

Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Sparc,

The Revelations does not say Seven Holy Spirits.  It says the seven spirits which are before God.  The Eternal Spirit is one with God and Son.  
I'll try to shed light on Holy Trinity.  They're are in Union with one another.

Christ's prayer before the Passion John 17, Father make them one as we are one.  Man's intellectual response.  The union is within spirit to Spirit.
He lives inside, God the Father lives in Christ, Christ lives in His Father, through the Holy Spirit.  The Eternal Spirit allows for unity and infusion
within.  No ye not that we are temples of the Holy Spirit? If a Temple then an altar resides within.

In the Name of the Father and The Son and Holy Spirit, the Sign of the Cross which Christ instituted.  That's how He blessed people when He walked amongst men.  Look at the Divine Mercy Picture how His right hand is in the position to make the Sign of the Cross.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Sparcz, God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit all existed before the beginning of the creation of mankind. God the Father in His infinite wisdom and foreknowledge established Christ to save mankind from thier sins.

God the Father in His infinite wisdom gave birth to Christ his only begotten son through Mary, the Blessed Mother in order to keep the covenant that was made with the house of Israel.

Saint Paul broght the knowledge of salvation through Christ, the Son of God the Father to the Gentiles[we are considered Gentiles].

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

Thanks for the answers

please read this about your faith in Thomas Statement in John 28:20

 

The Doubting Thomas

One of the witnesses summoned by opponents of the Christ-is-God theology to prove their contention regarding the doctrine of alleged deity of Christ is Thomas the Apostle.He is the "Doubting Thomas" he is the apostle who has been doubt. When Jesus rose from the Dead on the 1st day of the week (John 20:1). He was 1st seen by Mary Magdalene to whom He said.....”Go to My brethren and say to them,' I am ascending to My Father and to My God Your God'" (John 20:17 NKJV). Take note that Jesus told Mary Magdalene that His God is also God of His "Brethren." And since Christ consider those who hear God's words and follow them as His brother or Brethren (Lk. 8:21), Thomas, being one among those to whom this message was intended. The message is Clear:The God of Jesus is also God of the Disciples whom Jesus consider to be His Brethren. Mary Magdalene did go and tell the disciples what Jesus had spoken to her (Jn.20:18).

What was the reaction of the disciples when Mary Magdalene told them about the news of Jesus' resurrection? The Gospel according to Mark narrates that when the disciples first heard that Jesus was alive and had seen by her "They did not Believe" (Mk 16:11); the apostles thought that what the women said was nonsense (Lk 24:9-11)

After this event, Jesus appeared anew to two of the disciples (MK 16:12) He walk with them and while they were on the road, they told Him about the news that He was seen by some women who had seen a vision of angels and reported that He was alive (Lk24:23)

What was Christ's reaction to their words? Christ called them "fools, and slow of Heart to believe"(Lk 24:25). with these Statements, Jesus was Rebuking them because of the hardness of their heart. then the two disciples returned to Jerusalem and told the 11 apostles that Jesus was Risen (Lk.24:33-34) what was the reaction of the apostles upon hearing them? Mark recorded that they did not believe the report of these two disciples who were Jesus on the road to Emmaus (Mk.16:13). 

When Disciple were assembled, with the doors locked for the fear of Jews, Jesus came and told them to be at peace. Then He showed to them His Hand and side (John 20:19-20).

What was their Reaction at this time? The Disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord (John20:20). Who was absent when Christ first came? John narrated that Thomas was not with them when Jesus came (Jn.20:24). The other disciples told him that they had seen the Lord (Jn.20:25). Did Thomas believe this report? Possessing an attitude similar to that previously held by the other disciples, he reacted with disbelief and skepticism. He told them,…”Except I shall see in his  hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not Believe” (Jn.20:25). By this statement, Thomas became identified with skepticism and disbelief. Mark reported that Jesus later appeared to the Eleven as they were eating (Mk. 16:14) Luke Reported that when the two disciples found the Eleven assembled together, they told them that the Lord had risen (Lk.24:33-34). John Reported that this event happened eight days after Jesus initially and briefly appeared to the disciples (Jn.20:26). The disciples were gathered again and Thomas was with them at this time. (John 20:26). Jesus summoned Thomas to reach out his Finger, to look at His Hands, and to reach out his hand to Him (Jn.20:27). What was the reaction of the disciples, including Thomas? They were terrified and frieghten and supposed that they had seen a Spirit (Lk.24:37). What did Christ do when they mistook Him for a Spirit? He showed them His Hands and Feet and told them that a Spirit has No Flesh and Bones (Lk.24:38-39) Notice that before He showed His Hands and Feet, what did Christ tell them? “why are ye troubled? And why do thought arise in your hearts?” (Lk.24:38). By these statements, Jesus was clearly upbraiding them. Christ’s statements in Luke 24:39 is also tacitly teaching them that He is Not God . Prior to this event, Christ had earlier instructed the disciples about the nature of God. He taught that God is a Spirit, [Greek ,”pneuma”] (Jn.2:24).The apostles mistook Him for a spirit which is tantamount to falsely thinking of Christ is having the same nature as God or being God Himself. Is this only an assumption? The very fact that Thomas stated to Jesus, “My Lord and My God!” serves as palpable evidence that they had indeed believed a mistaken Identity of Jesus. But Jesus immediately corrected their wrong conclusion concerning His nature. He emphasized to them that he is not a Spirit (Lk.24:39), which is equivalent to saying that He is not God in His  state of being. Jesus’ statement in Luke 24:39 serves  as His didactical teaching to anyone who would think of Him as God. The Clarification He made to those who thought of Him as a Spirit is a reminder to anyone who would mistakenly think of Him as God. Whenever someone has a question regarding the true nature of Jesus Christ, he should be reminded simply about Jesus’ own statement in Luke 24:39 and His acknowledgment of His nature in John 8:40 wherein He emphatically declared, “I am a Man” In the account given by Mark, it was reported that Jesus upbraided or scolded His Disciples for their unbelief and hardness of heart because they did not believe those who saw Him after He had risen (Mk. 16:14). Was Thomas one of those whom Jesus rebuked and upbraided? Yes, because he is one of the Eleven (Lk.24:33; Mk.16:14). At this juncture, Christ told him, “Be not Faithless, but believing” (Jn.20:27) What are those words that Christ uttered to Thomas? These are upbraiding words which He said to him and to the rest of the Apostles as narrated by Luke (24:39).

A Statement of Amazement and Disbelief

 When Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and My God!” was he at this point affirming his faith in the alleged deity of Jesus or was he in a state of unbelief? Think the situation before Jesus showed Himself to them: the doors were shut when Jesus abruptly stood in their midst and summoned Thomas to come near to Him. What was Thomas’ reaction? A reaction of unbelief and amazement. Is this kind of reaction something that is strange or unusual? No. the fact is, Thomas was not the only one caught perplexed but also the rest of his companions. Like reported that when Jesus appeared abruptly in their midst while the disciples were gathered together, they were terrified and frightened(Lk.24:36-37). Even after Jesus showed His hands and feet (Lk. 24:40), still they did not believe because of their joy and amazement (Lk.24:41). It was  at this time that Jesus upbraided them (Mk.16:14). It is not surprising, therefore, for Thomas to react in such fashion similar to the other disciples. Being in a State of  Wonders and Disbelief, he uttered statement taught to them by Jesus through Mary Magdalene. What did Jesus tell Mary Magdalene that Thomas and the rest of the disciples should believe concerning the question of who should be their God? Jesus taught Mary and the Disciples that their God is His God (Jn.20:17). It must be remembered that during the preceding days before His Death, Jesus taught His Disciples the identity of the Only True God whom they should Believe. In His intercessory prayer to the Father in Heaven, He emphasized the absolute oneness of God by saying, “Father,…You the only True God” (Jn.17:1,3, NKJV emphasis ours). Obviously, Thomas failed to remember these words of his Master. What he uttered in John 20:28 should  not be regarded as a statement of faith nor should they be considered as a strong biblical foundation to assert Christ alleged deity.

Thoma’ statement in John 20:28 should be rejected as basis in proving the alleged divinity of Christ. Remember that Thomas was not preaching at that moment. His statement was against the statement that was written about Christ, uttered by peter when he was preaching under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4,22). If the proponents of the Christ-is-God  theology were to summon Thomas as a witness to prove their point, their evidence is weak because the one they consider as their prime witness was at that time in a state of doubt.

Mistake Rebuked

Other Ask: “ Why did Jesus not Rebuke Thomas if his statement was wrong?” They allege that Jesus accepted Thomas’ statement and even blessed him afterwards. Is it true that Thomas was not rebuked and was blessed later? What did Jesus tell him after he proclaimed, “My Lord and My God!” Jesus said to him, “ Have You believe because you have seen me?...(Jn20:29). What  do we see at this point? Jesus was rebuking him, not blessing him! On the other Hand, who are Blessed according to Jesus? “ Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.” (Jn. 20:29)

It is true that many of Christ’s disciples had neither seen Him personally after He had risen nor had witnessed His resurrection. They had not seen His resurrected body, yet they believed His body had risen from the grave. Although many have not seen Jesus walked on earth as a man, many  have accepted His testimony that He is a Man telling the truth which He heard from God (Jn.8:40). Apostle Peter testified that He is a man  proven by God through the miracles, wonders, and signs which God did Through Him (Acts 2:22,TEV) Apostle Paul taught the Christians that the man Jesus Christ is their Mediator to God (I Tim. 2:5 KJV). His disciples never proclaimed Jesus as God in their Preaching and in their epistles. Unfortunately, there are still those who insist on submitting the doubting apostle’s statement in John 20:28 as their alleged evidence in proving their thwarted belief on Jesus Christ’s State of being. The reason is simple. In the absence of explicit biblical evidences that could substantiate their claim, they have no other resource but to give much credit to the testimony of a doubting person. In a way, there are many “Doubting Thomas “ today who, in spite of overwhelming biblical evidences that it is  not  Jesus  but  the  Father alone is the only True God (John.17:1,3;  I Cor. 8:6; Eph.4:6), still contend that Jesus is God, using as basis erroneous statements such as that which was uttered by the Apostle Thomas in John20:28. If these people would only accept the inspired testimonies of the Lord Jesus and apostle Paul that the Father is the Only True God, then they would not fall into the same serious mistake as what Thomas and other disciples once commited. However , those who have done a thorough examination of the biblical narrative cited, after doing an exhaustive study, would agree to the truth that: Thomas; statement in John 20:28 is not a confession of faith but a statement made by a person who was in a state of Amazement and disbelief.
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member

sparc

no idea what you're intending on here but, whatever denom you come from you only have a portion of Faith it's called scripture and you misrepresent the Christian faith by your misrepresented ideas and theology.  It's a bust.   No Eucharist and kneeling before God to submit yourself = no undestanding.  

You're intellectualizing everything.  No Spiritual content inside your soul.
You're spirit is not regenerating.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive
David T Garrison

That is what I told you before. Ur reason was non Biblical,  You also told me that all of these is Scripturally Based..so what Verse in the Bible you Get this? "If your father was a dog than you would be a dog" and this

"Jesus' Father is God", True according to Mal.2:10

"Have we not all one Father? Did not one Create us?"

I John 4:14-15 "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the World. Who ever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God , God abides in Him, and he in God." 

Jesus also Testify this in John 20:17 "Jesus said , 'Do not hold on to me, for I have not returning to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, "I am returning to "my Father and Your Father",

to "mY God and your God"."...there are two important details to recognize..first Jesus called and recognized His God and His Father is also the Father and God of Brethren. He did not say" I returning To My father and Your Father because We are Your Gods"

by the power of the Holy Spirit,

Jesus Introduced the Holy Spirit in John14:26 "but the "Comforter", which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, what so ever I have said unto you"

"therefore Jesus is God" conflict or contradict the Bible Teaching in John 8:40, and this John 17:1,3

"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only True God." 

if Jesus is also God and have the same substance with the Father the bible teaching must be like this.

This is the eternal Life, that they may know "US, We are true Gods." 

may be you have to Study how to use Plural words We and Us then the plural form with "s". The word YOU is singular, and written in the bible is singular Form "GOD"  without "s"

All of this is Scripturally based, so give me the Verse about "If your father was a dog than you would be a dog"

why do you not believe?

Because You have a man made philosophy. do you agree? 

keep answering, and reading for the best of our Faith in God and Christ Jesus with the Help of Holy Spirit.   

 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive


no idea what you're intending on here but, whatever denom you come from you only have a portion of Faith it's called scripture and you misrepresent the Christian faith by your misrepresented ideas and theology.  It's a bust.   No Eucharist and kneeling before God to submit yourself = no undestanding.  

You're intellectualizing everything.  No Spiritual content inside your soul.
You're spirit is not regenerating.

Thank you... 

bhokuto

 

all I give here and posted here is Biblical and not man made teaching. I gave you the Verses wher I got my faith and Belief without Contradict the Verses with each other. I also give you an Explanation using other verse not in my own philosophy. I read all the verses that someone or somebody posted here, I just gave the other verses to prove that is not true. So we have to open Our Mind and Heart not to judge but to Explain what we have in our Heart, how can we Understand the true message if there is a Conflicts or contradictions to the Book that we Use as reference for our faith.

If you really believe in The Bible as you use to Testify that Jesus is God.. Try to Understand it without conflict and Contradict other verses.If you use other book as reference like History or Catholic Encyclopedia, etc..it be better for you to understand the truth.  because truth can set you free.

 

Posted 1 year ago #
Sparcz - Inactive

We are happy to trade Bible texts with you in helping you see the reasonableness of the teachings of the Catholic church.

Thank you also for sharing your belief. I am a Former Catholic in 24 years.

"But I hope you understand that Catholics do not rely on the Bible to "prove" the Faith.

I know that, that is why I asking about some teaching that contradicts or Disobey Gods Law written in the Bible.

The Church venerates Sacred Scripture, of course. But she also has Sacred Tradition and the teaching office of the Magisterium to give the fullness of the Truth of Jesus Christ.

What kind of Sacred Tradition? The way they convince the people or Countries to be a Catholic was Barbaric, worldly and political matters that is very unreasonable. they kill those who disobey.

In catholic Book Encyclopedia and History, the First Pope is Peter but their is question mark meaning unknown when. Apostle Peter Died 476 A.D,. Roman Catholic and the First Pope began at 800 A.D.

There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts the Catholic Faith,and there is nothing in the Catholic Faith that contradicts the Bible. The Bible is a Catholic book.

I am a Believers of catholic in 24 years..when i was at the age of 12, I started to read a different Versions of Bible, I Found the Bibles Under my table in School and the other in a Bus. I Love to read it but I don't understand at that time. I refer and ask my parents and Catholic priest and also my Aunt about the Bible, they use only the verse that is good to hear for them, and they cant explain the other instead they use other words and fairy tales to convince me to believe. since I was in the Age of 18 I started to search and buy different History books and encyclopedia. Catholic Church did not Teach the Bible inside or even in their Mass, They read some Verse but they did not Explain the meaning.

To strain at "proving" the faith by engaging in sword drills with contrasting Bible verses is not going to get you what you are seeking.

I am seeking for the Truth nothing but the Truth.  You didn't explain the verses that you posted. so I try to Give you my understanding and base only in the Bible. Prove to me that their is no contrasting Bible Verses in Your belief even using other Scriptures or books that You have there..

and I gave You mine Using the Bible Only. 

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Sparcz - ok - what is your denomination?

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
michaelme - Member
Peter died in 476 A.D.? That puts him at what...500 or so years old when he died? "[T]he first pope began at 800 A.D.?" Not according to Irenaeus writing in the Second Century. Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"

"The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - GK Chesterton
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Sparc

Some Catholics never did rely on the Bible to prove their faith.  Saints were made from true recognition internally they knew God was about the soul.

paper and print is used for reminding and teaching.  it's food for thought
the soul is the real generator.  God looks at the Heart.  Revelations 3:20
Psalms, Proverbs, Wisdom and so forth.

every soul who wants to know God has to be reborn, regenerated, made new, the old soul is corrupt according to sin.  Concupiscence.

Sparc I suggest you go join a church that is more inline with true biblical
teaching that is not false and misleading, and you should tell Satan to drink His own Poison.    

Also, Sparc, without the Holy Mother your faith will not be complete.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
yanastrovich - Inactive

Sparcz, It seems to me that you are confused with the largest part of the message of Scripture, That God corrects those he loves to perfect them.

In other words, what seems like harshness from God is actually what is currently called tough love. It is written that the purpose of correction is to perfect the soul in understanding and Holiness.

We should always be ready and willing to accept correction from God the Father for our own good.

 In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Posted 1 year ago #

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Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge