Two observations:

1. Your friends who state that religion is not important seem to be confusing terms. Religion is the way we live our lives in expression of our Faith (show them the pertinent lines of St. James's epistle where he observes that faith without works is dead). There is another term which describes action that is important but which can also be perilous if done in a vacuum. This term is religiosity, which refers to the external manifestations of our faith. External manifestation is certainly important, but not nearly as important as religion itself. The danger is that the external manifestations do not, in fact, reflect the internal fellowship that we must have with God in order to follow His path to heaven.
2. Any "born-again Christian" who has read a book about Jesus or living Christian life or on understanding the Bible, has incorporated the theological notion of tradition into his Christianity (or fellowship or whatever). Indeed any such person who has sustained a conversation with another, or heard a sermon, about their fellowship or about the Bible or about any other topic pertaining to their belief, has also incorporated the notion of tradition. Note that it is not Sacred Tradition (which ultimately passes through the Magisterium), but it is tradition because it involves thinking and feeling and giving oneself up bodily and spiritually to faith in a way that is facilitated or directed by one's own expressed faith or the expressed faith of another. Bible-alone Christianity cannot possibly exist because it excludes fellowship. If it's the Bible-alone, how can you incorporate Joe's or Martha's experience of Bible-based faith? As soon as you do, it's the Bible, plus Joe and Martha, alone. As you expand your circle, you increase the fellowship and in so doing bring in elements (i.e. people) from outside the Bible. Fellowship by its very nature thus brings on the elements of tradition. Indeed tradition comes form the Latin verb tradere which means to bring up from out of the past. It does not matter whether the past is 2000 years ago or 2000 milliseconds ago. Either brings the past into some sort of unity with the present in order to guide the choices we make in the present time. Either, therefore, is an expression of tradition - although the expression that excludes the things brought up from out of the more distant past is a sadly constrained and limited form of tradition.

Hope this helps.

Thanks HomeschoolNfpDad for sharing this. I noticed that a lot of my friends are leaving the Catholic church to become "born again Christians" because of a lot of wrong notions about the church. I'm happy that they pray more and have more love for God now but the fact that that they never knew what being a Catholic is about when they were Catholic saddens me. And as days pass by, more and more I realize that they are being taught a lot of bad or wrong things about the Catholic church, using the Bible as a reference to convince them of such things. So when I get the chance to have a conversation about faith etc, I try to correct what I can so that they know and don't use it to lure other Catholics out of the church. Once again thanks for sharing your thoughts and knowledge. It will help me correct or explain matters to my friends.

Also I would appreciate it if you tell me more about the term religiosity because it is the first time I encountered this term.  Thanks

HomeschoolNfpDad,

Those posts were both right on target.  God bless you and your understanding of this topic.  I may in the future use your words in response to similar questions.

Krish,

Goodluck and Godspeed.  I too am bummed when I encounter this kind of ire at religion in general.  It is as if those who are against it are floating spirits without bodies when they speak of God.  But, on every other topic they are embodied people.  They enjoy a good joke, they laugh at funny things, they smile, they shake hands, they express their love for others through hugs, kisses, cards, gifts and more.  But with God they are all spirit and would not think of approaching God with their human "traditions."  It is frustrating when people make of themselves spirits.  It makes talking to them about God impossible.  Its almost as if Christ was never here.  And some guys wrote a book about him that our Spiritual minds can read.

Prayers for you and your friends. 

GK - God is good!

I would have to say that the sinners of the "institution" has done it to themselves.  Christ's bride, the Church, is spotless and filled with Truth.  However, it is still made up of us sinners.  And it is each one of us (like NoelFitz says) that fails to proclaim the Truth to all those around us (using words if necessary).

If you look at the amazing catechesis coming out of the Vatican for the past decades, you cannot easily fault The Catholic Church.  It's all there for anyone with eyes to see.  But it is not trickling down to the rest of us.  Some are reaching out to receive it, and it is readily available to fill us to the brim with knowledge of love of Christ.  Some do not know it exists.  Where is the breakdown?  This is a topic in and of itself, and one that I am not particularly inclined to start or partake in because it will easily fall to finger-pointing.

It is sufficient for each one of us to ask ourselves, "Am I doing enough?  Can I do more?  Even if it means sacrifice?"  And that is sufficient to re-enkindle the flames from the furnace.

A friend of mine - her sister left the Catholic Church because "She never found Christ there."  My friend's response is so spot-on.  "You never looked for Him there." 

This is a relationship!  We don't wait until we are entertained or until it "feels good".  A relationship of love cannot be passive.  SEEK and you shall find.  KNOCK and it will be opened to you.  God does not push himself on us.  We have to meet him part-way.

Religiosity is perhaps best explained as the externally visible activities in which we engage when we live our religion. For example, if you clasp hands and bow your head when you pray, then our clasped hands and bowed head constitute the religiosity of your prayer. The issue at hand is prayer, and the clasped hands and bowed head are often helpful to us as we engage in that prayer. Moreover, they can be helpful to others, particularly those who are just learning, to see how it is we enter into prayer. The real danger, however, is that we merely clasp our hands and bow our heads without opening our hearts to God in prayer. Thus, religiosity is very beneficial as long as we don't forget what it is we are doing. If all we engage in are the externally visible signs, then our religiosity can be a hindrance. Pope Benedict underscores this quite firmly in Deus Caritas Est. In number 37, he states:

It is time to reaffirm the importance of prayer in the face of the activism and the growing secularism of many Christians engaged in charitable work. Clearly, the Christian who prays does not claim to be able to change God's plans or correct what he has foreseen. Rather, he seeks an encounter with the Father of Jesus Christ, asking God to be present with the consolation of the Spirit to him and his work. A personal relationship with God and an abandonment to his will can prevent man from being demeaned and save him from falling prey to the teaching of fanaticism and terrorism. An authentically religious attitude prevents man from presuming to judge God, accusing him of allowing poverty and failing to have compassion for his creatures. When people claim to build a case against God in defence of man, on whom can they depend when human activity proves powerless?

This is the way I'd explain it.

It is absolutely right that your relationship with Jesus is THE single more important thing in the world. 

relgion - means a set of thing we do to get to know jesus better it is one of many ways we should tell jesus we love him.

Every realationship not only has but need rituals.

Even baptist have rituals they just decieve themselves into thinking they do not.  thier rituals are less structured by they are certainly there.

For instance if you read the bible regularly this is a ritual.

When we meet for sunday service as catholics we read the bible together because reading the scripture helps us draw closer into relationship with Jesus.

Going to church every sunday is a ritual.

Praying a memorized payer is a different kind of ritual.  It is like every morning I tell my wife ' I love you' and every evening when I come home again I tell here 'I love you'. 

I do so 'religously' it is a ritial.  That doesn't make the statment any less true.  Actually it re-enforced the statment for both of us.  If i stopped doing it my wife would feel less loved. 

The whole of the mass is an elaborate 'i love you' for jesus. We do the same thing over and over again because we feel the same way all the time.  We are in love and want to show it. 

Jesus etablished the mass himself to refuse to tell jesus you love him the way he want to be told becuase you are afraid it won't be 'spontainious' is a very sinful kind of pride.

krish i have to 'unfortunaly' mostly agree.

With perhapse one reservation.  How many times have you been personally invited ( not from the alter, by someone who knows you) to volenteer or participate at church. 

I do think something that would be useful today would be some kind of a 'greeting' ministry where parishioners are met when they first register at a parish.  Also, i think it might be useful to actually creat some kind of a call list so that those looking for people to participate in ministry can personally call people within the parish ( I have seen parish directories from time to time used this way).

On the other hand I think it is important that people not go to church to be entertained. 

The christian ideal is to live in small tight knit communities and help each other out.  I do think the american catholic church as a whole fails to promote such living situations.   

RE: "community"

The thread deserves more visibility.

I once was told that salvation is to be worked out in community, not in solitairity (is that a word??).  (I'm not looking for "solitude," as that is where we encounter God.)  Hence, to the extent that the Church does not reach out and offer fellowship, then to that extent the Church is falling short.  Mea culpa.

Regards,

Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & generally inveterate amateur)

(New kid on the block,just waiving a hand.)

  The roman catholic church is on it's death bed because religian and education are incompatable.

  The churches last breath lies in the poor and undereducate (Peasent) states.

grumpy,

Re: the Roman Catholic Church on its deathbed.

I don't mean to cloud the issue for you by introducing facts into it, but here: 

The 2007 Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches reports the largest 25 denominations/communions in the U.S. (noting an increase or decrease in membership since the 2006 Yearbook reports).

1. The Catholic Church, 69,135,254 members, reporting an increase of 1.94 percent.

2. The Southern Baptist Convention, 16,270,315 members, reporting a increase of .02 percent.

3. The United Methodist Church, 8,075,010 members, reporting a decrease of 1.36 percent.

4. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 5,690,672 members, reporting an increase of 1.63 percent.

5. The Church of God in Christ, 5,499,875 members, no increase or decrease reported.

6. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., 5,000,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

7. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 4,850,776, reporting a decrease of 1.62 percent.

8. National Baptist Convention of America, 3,500,000, no increase or decrease reported.

9. Presbyterian Church (USA), 3,098,842 members, reporting a decrease of 2.84 percent.

10. Assemblies of God, 2,830,861 members, reporting an increase of 1.86 percent.

11. African Methodist Episcopal Church, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

12. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America, 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

13. Progressive National Baptist Convention, Inc., 2,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

14. The Lutheran Church Missouri Synod (LCMS), 2,440,864, reporting a decrease of .93 percent.

15. Episcopal Church, 2,247,819, reporting a decrease of 1.59 percent.

16. Churches of Christ, 1,639,495 members, reporting an increase of 9.30 percent (This increase reports the church's growth since its last reported figures in 1999.)

17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc., 1,500,000 members, no increase or decrease reported.

19. The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, 1,440,405 members, reporting an increase of .53 percent.

20. American Baptist Churches in the USA, 1,396,700, reporting a decrease of 1.97 percent.

21. United Church of Christ, 1,224,297, reporting a decrease of 3.28 percent.

22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International, 1,200,000, no increase or decrease reported.

23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, 1,071,615 members, no increase or decrease reported.

24. The Orthodox Church in America, 1,064,000 members, reporting an increase of 6.40 percent.

25. Jehovah's Witnesses, 1,046,006 members, reporting a decrease of 1.56 percent.

The total members reported in the largest 25 communions is 149,222,807, an overall increase of .82 percent.

The biggest and the biggest increase is ... the Roman Catholic Church!

And that is only in the US. The Church is really kicking into high gear in Africa and Asia.

Jesus Christ is

Son of God

Eternally Begotten

True God

True Man

Savior

Redeemer

the latter comment of not recorded to have written anything, and no one on earth to have seen Him.

God is three persons.  Father Son Spirit

The soul of man comes from God, the soul is like God in that it is a spirit. So a person who is living in God's will, is speaking, living and writing on God's behalf.   When we Christians say "God" we mean all three. Because all three work, similar to this illustration and is in no way the exact because God is still mysterious all His ways.

The illustration:

The Brain or Mind of God conceives and brings forth thoughts.

The Word of God speaks what the Mind of God thinks, both share the thoughts and words reverberate between the two because God is the Highest form of Intelligence.  But the Word of God cannot do anything unless the Mind of God has conceived it and only does what Mind of God brings forth.

The Worker of God performs the Thoughts and Words, brings to us both The Father and Son.

Then end result being God doing His thing.  This is done on a grand scale. And Not Our Grand Scale because it does not compare. 

Men who wrote the different books of the bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit and in some cases under the total influence when prophesying.  

Only those during Christ's time and those who have had private revelations have seen Christ.

I think the closest one can come to is the Divine Mercy picture.  

To further elaborate on writing, man is scandalous. If Christ wrote anything it would be considered a relic, hidden, obsessions and so forth.  The example of the Holy Grail which is so sought after and has caused much scandal, as well as the holy affect.    Because God knows man, He avoids giving them really good things to show forth His evidence of being.  Rather, He gives us things that we do not count worthy of being sought after.  For instance a piece of bread.  

The last example God gave to Jews the Mighty Ark of the Covenant.  Which was abused. So God tested man and he failed.  Why should God give us better things of earthly value? We perish and forget.

Wljewell

You wrote:

In my experience, faith and reason give each other potency that reflect great openness to the Holy Spirit.

Congratulations on your very sound post. It is a jewel.

It also allows me to refer again to one of my favorite themes.

The Church needs pastors/shepherds and academics/scholars.

We have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us: prophecy, in proportion to faith; ministry, in ministering; the teacher, in teaching; the exhorter, in exhortation; the giver, in generosity; the leader, in diligence; the compassionate, in cheerfulness. (Rom 12:6-8)

I'm sorry I've been away for so long...

Pouliot and bhokuto, How important do you think fellowship is to the spiritual growth of people? wljewell said earlier in one of his posts, "Good fellowship is far less important than devout submission to God". And I agree. I believe that there are more important things than fellowship to help us grow spiritually. But I guess to some extent, fellowship does play a role in spreading the Gospel as well as in supporting each other in terms of faith and morals. 

grumpybumpas, why do you say "The roman catholic church is on its death bed because religion and education are incompatible."?

wljewell, you have a good question. Why do we Catholics stay in this Church? This is a good question which I'd also encourage everyone to answer or at least reflect on. I grew up as a Catholic, went to a Catholic school, and most of my relatives and friends are Catholic. But I didn't want to stay a Catholic just because I grew up as such. I knew in my heart that this is the right thing for me since I had a lot of faith in the Catholic Church, but I also wanted to have other reasons. You see I used to think that it's ok to be in whatever religion as long as you find good relationship with God there. And I think that good relationship with God is top priority. But there are other things to consider in a religion. Such as interpretations of the Scripture, teachings of the Church, etc. And so I started to read the Bible, read a couple of apologetics, and attended Bible study groups. And by doing these things I learned a lot. I found a lot of answers and reasons. I guess I found not just FAITH but TRUTH as well. And I found peace knowing that I am a Catholic based on faith and reason.