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How Gay, the Homosexual?
(74 posts)God loves you .
RE: JLJewell's request for ladies imput: Is it possible that you roommate felt de-masculated by females in early life ? I knew of one who felt sorry for his dad due to the fact that his dad was kept in line by the mother! This person did not have a high regard for women.
As a registered nurse, I worked with a couple fellows who favored same sex relations...both of them accepted females with grace. One of these guy's was actually married and had 3 children but everyone knew that if he allowed himself, he would have favored his own sex. That brings up the addiction and pleasure principle...Once addicted, it's not that easy to undo without the Grace of God. I read the book: Grace and addiction (Can't remember the Author, but he was a famous Psychiatrist ) and this Dr stated that there were no full proof remedies other than God's saving Actions. We have become a pleasure seeking society, the way I see it and unless we get on our knees and beg God's Mercy, we aren't going to make it. Hopeful in the Lord !
Submitted by SR LN . . . 04/01/2007
BAM! Nail on the head - belittled by his mother, and in favor of his older sister! He disrespects his father not only for joining in with his mother, but both being 'so Catholic' and then getting divorced.
My roomate, too, is a lapsed Catholic - so many, poor souls - who would have been better off not 'taught Religion' at all than given the tripe that passes for catechesis since near the end of VatII.
There probably is causal relationship for sexual disorder in family disorder in all aspects. Sexual disorder can also be viewed in reference to heterosexual promiscuity, tied to such similar family dysfunctionality.
I came from parents who would have had to improve to have me think them merely inept. I cover the Church's own unfortunate if mainly unconscious complicity within tolerating my parents' lack of Christian ways and guidance in my blog at http://www.fightingirishthomas.org/”>The Feast of Sts. Joachim and Anna, Grandparents of Our Lord (http://www.fightingirishthomas.org/).
Permit me to be frankly confessional. I have more nervous tics than a horse blanket. I have always over-eaten (and over-cooked) for comforting compensation. I smoke cigarettes because my body so enjoys it (though under my late wife's gentle care, I quit for a few years before she died). I have problems with pornography and self-abuse. And, too, I have homosexual tendencies that arise every now and again.
Under my wife's exhortations about the Fourth Commandment, I was always there for my parents until they died. Though, my wife was dead over twenty years when my mother died, even as I continued to be the honoring son all the way. To her dying day, when she was down because others did not call her, I always told my mother 'You did as well as you could' - I really was a good son, God be praised in His Commandment, His graces, and His gift of a great, brilliant, pious woman for my partner, my beloved Little One, my beloved Sharon.
However, too, I have little or nothing to do with four younger siblings - I'm the oldest of five. We never 'connected', let alone 'attached'. I can see now how my insecure mother kept us unaffectionately unattached to protect her prerogatives. But, then, I don't know them, and they seem not to want to know me, given a few overtures over time. I am about to try again with my nearest sibling to make connection: my dying cousin, Dick, cause of another topic of mine in the 'Prayer Request' forum, asked me to try . . .
My own parents, contra the usual with an oldest ethnic son, seemed to harbor resentment toward me that caused, for example, beatings that never were as outraged and outrageous for my siblings. As a child, I remember at least once bleeding from welts, so vicious was my 'discipline'.
Such dysfunction, even expressing my response in homosexual tendencies, has to leave so many wounds that I bleed a loneliness and isolation now that . . .
. . . only God in His mercy, love, clear involvement, careful spiritual attendance, inspiration to prayer, reading, writing, etc., has taken on Himself to keep me to Himself. He redeems me as I type this reply. He keeps my salvation before my eyes, and I suffer my wounds as His gifts in trying so to 'Follow Me.' His cross for me is His easy yoke and light burden for me, for nothing can be too heavy for me to want, to LOVE, to 'Follow Me.'
See our God go about me - to permit me to house a lonely and confused young man who I could 'use' in disorder and sin. God's angels lead Him in with cymbals jangling, in whirling dance, casting His graces about us. In these are gaiety, not in any disordered and sinful actions. And, I am content . . .
Remember, I love you, too
Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ,
Pristinus Sapienter
(wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
As an encouragement for the salvation of your family, I came across a prayer that has been blessed and approved by a late Pope.
The 15 prayers of St. Bridgette of Sweden.
Comes with 21 promises. One of which promises to save 15 members of your family.
Posted 1 year ago #
I usually avoid being involved with discussions about homosexuality.
I consider homosexuality to be morally indifferent. It is, in a sense, similar to alcoholism. Being an alcoholic is not immoral, also being a homosexual is also not immoral. Alcoholics, heterosexuals and homosexuals are all bound by the same moral code.
The Catholic church teaches that situations where sex occurs outside of marriage "offend against the dignity of marriage...They are contrary to the moral law. The sexual act must take place exclusively within marriage. http://www.beliefnet.com/features/chastity_chart.html
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________
Posted 1 year ago #
God loves the sinner Noelfitz. Detestation of the sin is more the norm in the Church.
Gays or Hs are neither outside Gods mercy, neither are prostitutes. Read the Diary of St. Faustina. God loves without moral code. A moral code is for the converted sinner. God has to remain as He is: the Physician, Savior, Redeemer till the end of time. He wants all sinners whole and healthy. Would you go out of our way to help a Gay person find salvation? Christ teaches salvation to all sinners, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23.
No one is without faults.
Posted 1 year ago #
To: P.S.
RE: "Vatican II"Vatican II closed in 1965 (opened in 1962). My HS class graduated in 1960. If increased homosexuality were the result of V-II, then it yet wouldn't account for those in my cohort or the ones in the cohorts ahead of me. One of them, I can testify was a predator. The other met a grisly end at the hands of one of his victims. As an estimate of the fraction involved here, be aware that there were less than 50 students in my entire HS graduating class.
I've no intention to argue; just wishing to provide some alternate perspective.
I am resolved to try to remember you in my daily prayers and ask that you will include me in yours. I hope to attend Mass at noon tomorrow and I will try to remember you in a special way then.
- She:kon,
- Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & generally inveterate amateur)
Posted 1 year ago #
I tend to agree with noelfitz. As with the alcoholic, it seems most people who are gay seem to have been born with the tendency. Sure, some probably choose that way, but to me it seems that given the struggle and ultimate sadness of it all, most are probably born with this tendency.
That having been said however, as with the person who has been born with addictive personality, the Church welcomes and encourages them, not to give into their desires and drink to oblivion, but instead to try to find strength and balance and happiness by asking help from God.
Life is very difficult for homosexuals; in many ways they bear a heavy cross. And our society today - because instead of encouraging people to search for balance and strength, we encourage people to simply give in to their desires - does not help matters.
Posted 1 year ago #
As someone who comes from a family where the propensity to alcoholism is quite evident. I'd like to point out some language problems that might help to clarify peoples thinking.
someone who has the genetic tendency to alcoholism is by no means an alcoholic. Many of them drink socially and never develop the debilitating addiction.
Likewise, I have little doubt there is some genetic, early life ( womb based perhaps) etc component to homosexuality that is beyond the control of those how actively engage in homosexual sex.
Likewise I remain fervent about the fact that the tendency DOES NOT make them homosexual nor should they be referred to as homosexual simply because of a envoi mental tendency.
It is specifically through the abuse of language of this sort that the homosexual political lobby has successfully made inroads to get 'homosexuality' classified as a 'minority group'. What they do is blur significantly the behavior and the person.
The language used here shows their success in the fact that it does not significantly distinguish between those who have homosexual tendency’s and those who sin by having homosexual sex.
For my part I will support equal rights for homosexuals the same day I support equal rights ( employment included ) for alcoholics, and pedophiles.
Both of which are also groups that exhibit behaviors preconditioned in some part by environment ( be it genetic or not) beyond their control.
What is not realized by many Catholics is that by support equal rights for a group that can only be defined by it's behavior you must do so equally for all other groups. The argument quickly devolves into non-sense.
Posted 1 year ago #
The modern day scientists and doctors attribute many things to genetic make up. The weakness to vice. This whole issue has been already explained centuries ago by God himself. Lust is vice which is Satan's poison. It has spread over the centuries in man from generation to generation. Spoiling the batch.
The first man and woman had the "seed" of Satan's poison. Each generation afterwards had the sprouts or the fruits of the seed. Consequently, this poison spread further into the "genome of man" poping up in many forms called sickness and disease. Science without Gods knowledge and wisdom leaves man to say we are a mess and we have to genetically alter the dysfunction, whereas Christ says eat my flesh and drink my blood and you will be rid of Satan's poison. Much simpler and costs much less. God always finds the best way and always has a cure to poison.
My explanation is short and sweet but warrants deeper details.
Man searches vehemently out of ignorance, and spinning his wheels in a thousand different directions, then tiring himself out near death and realizes after exhaustion, All I had to do was listen to God.
Posted 1 year ago #
A good friend of mine does (has done...putting it on pause as the research is exhausting) much research into homosexuality.
First, I think we need not spend too much time analyzing whether one is BORN with a homosexual tendency - or whether it is something developed. The end effect is still the same.
Second, I do think SOME should look into the research, as it can be helpful in terms of addressing this issue better.
That being said, people do need to temper their "observations" with logic. Just because it may SEEM that people are born with it does not mean that it is necessarily true. Is it not possible that it is a "condition" that develops in the first 12 to 24 months? Would that not also SEEM like one is "born" with it (i.e...genetic)? Observations need to be back with much logic and reason. The conclusions cannot be jumped to so quickly.
Dale wrote some great articles about this in particular. She (and many others) has written many other great articles regarding the topic of homosexuality in general. (note, some of the links in the list do not work...but title and author give you enough info to do an independent search).
Posted 1 year ago #
For Ipioch who is very patient and has a wonderful mind.
Prescription:
Give to the alternate lifestyle people the Eucharist daily- twice a day and call Jesus in the morning. If you truly believe Christ is present in the wafer, the illness should go away. Have faith and believe. Faith with works is the Holy Spirits Domain. Do I belittle the Eucharist? No, I know it's power and what it means in many ways. It is more than supper, it is more than a wafer, it is more than just Christ, It is All Three. Where One is, the others are present. This goes beyond the four walls of our conscienceness.
God is power, St. Paul. For God has not given me the spirit of fear (where I shrink back to sin), but of Power and of Love and of a Sound Mind.
God is infinite, the abyss called God,
Want to get rid of water pollution? pour holy water into the seas and rivers and lakes. In fact pour holy water anywhere along with holy salt and wella a boat load of fresh fish. Faith with works is the Holy Spirits domain. We have so many tools or gifts, sacramentals that can help so many, yet we are afraid like cowards.
Is pride a genetic disorder? No, It is the root of sin. The branches or offshoots from pride are many. Who can really know all it's forms? One way to look, mankind is Satan's lab rats. Love has no end, lust has an end to death of the flesh then eternal lust in hell. Pride. Pride is a lust. Though it is not sensual like touchy feely. It is the lust of the will in a person.
Christ bore all of our sickness and disease. Isaiah. He took upon himself all the poison Satan planted. Man was made Good according to Genesis (this means without all the ills of vice or poison) Do the Angels in heaven experience sickness and disease? God made all things Good in the beginning. This means without dying as well. Satan poisoned man and caused death to come into the world of man. A nasty poison. Once the original sin is removed, the next item on the menu to be removed is the seed called concupisence. Then finally Death. The Eucharist kills all of them, yet mysticaly. Death is for the flesh it cannot be avoided, but in John 6 Jesus promises us that we will live forever if we eat his flesh and drink his blood. What a great thing and it costs much less than all the research in the world. It takes Faith to do anything "God". Faith says Jesus is present in the Eucharist, working to eat it says I believe so I work to eat it. The combination of the two. Faith spurs or motivates or should motivate into action.
Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
The problem I have with the modern homosexual agenda is the attempt to fuse the morality of the action with the personal reponsibility.
The claim , because i desire to sin, sin must be what I am supposed to do.
Even if homosexal acts where a cumpulsion like say terrets syndrom ' some suffers fall into fits of shouting profanities'. The homsexal act itself reamains wrong and sinful. The only thing that is modifed is personal responsibility.
None the less, it is well known that homosexuality is a treatable disorder.
Homosexual respond to the same treatment with similar sucess rates and alcholics.
If kleptomina was found to be genetic would we then be justifed in calling 'theft' an alternate life style?
No, we would expect the kleptomanic to avoid sitiuations that lead them to commint crimes armed with the knowledge of thier weakness.
Posted 1 year ago #
To add to fishman's statement, I have a problem with the homosexual...group trying to force it on the rest of society. They put it on TV, they have homosexual groups for high schoolers and colleges, they parade naked through the streets, and they attack anyone and everyone who doesn't commend them for "being who they are".
Thus far, there has been no gay "gene" discovered. Even if it is a genetic disorder, it doesn't make people parade naked in the street. An alcoholic doesn't generally arrange a drunken trip to McDonalds to get sloshed.
St. Paul in his letter to the Romans chapter 1 stated:
- For in it is revealed the righteousness of God from faith to faith; 11 as it is written, "The one who is righteous by faith will live."
- 18
- 12 The wrath 13 of God 14 is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.
- 19
- For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.
- 20
- Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;
- 21
- for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.
- 22
- While claiming to be wise, they became fools
- 23
- and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
- 24
- Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
- 25
- They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
- 26
- Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
- 27
- and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
- 28
- And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
- 29
- They are filled with every form of wickedness, evil, greed, and malice; full of envy, murder, rivalry, treachery, and spite. They are gossips
- 30
- and scandalmongers and they hate God. They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness, and rebellious toward their parents.
- 31
- They are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Please don't think I'm hating of homosexuals. This letter from Paul isn't used to be hateful either. It is documenting what he sees as a progression from those who reject God, and the practices in which they engage.
Many of these things of which Paul speaks are also found in heterosexuals. We are all sinful, the difference is that David Vitter isn't trying to convince the rest of society that brothels are not sinful and he's not recruiting high-schoolers to hang out in brothels and become brothel madams.
Posted 1 year ago #
I have a problem with statements like "I have a problem with the homosexual group......" It's unfair to say that all homosexuals think or act one certain way. Perhaps they "force it on society" as you say because they simply want to be accepted as human beings. They want to love and be loved just as much as us heterosexuals.
I am friends with a lesbian couple who have been together for 10 years. They are beautiful, loving and generous individuals. They never go out of their way to make people uncomfortable about the fact that they are gay. They are productive members of society and are truly devoted to each other. In fact, they have a much better and loving relationship than most heterosexual couples I know. There are times, I have wished that my husband and I could be as giving as they are to each other.
All I'm saying is we all sin. We all fail. I'm not saying we should embrace the sin, but as followers of Christ we should embrace the sinner.
Posted 1 year ago #
Raven
well said.
If two females wish to live in the same house/apartment they are often considered lesbian. This is unfair. They may be just friends and it suits them to share accommodation and have companionship.
Similarly for two males.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________
Posted 1 year ago #
noelfitz - I think you have misread Raven's post. The term Lesbian implies a couple who are engaged in specific sexual acts with one another and makes it clear this couple IS NOT simply two good friends who like each other company.
Raven - what can I tell you. Your friends are hurting each other through their sexual actions. They do psychotically and spiritual damage that is beyond any 'apparent' benefit of the affection they express to one another. That is why homosexuality is a mortal sin. Even if one is not fully culpable for it still has real consequences. Just as a person who drinks poison and doesn't know it is not culpable for committing suicide but in the end are still dead. Your loving friends are literally killing each other. If i tell them that am I not accepting them as persons? If you haven't already , you should consider addressing that problem with them in the most tactful and loving way possible or honestly you aren't being much of a friend to them.
The problem with homosexual rights groups is that they advocate a definition of a person that claims a person is not in control of their sexual actions. That if one has same sex attraction you are automatically 'gay/ lesbian' their is nothing you can do about it and further more there is nothing you should be expected to do about it. You should embrace you sexuality and start committing mortal sin.
They are NOT looking for simple acceptance as human beings they are looking for acceptance of specific actions as morally legitimate. Actions that are morally wrong.
At the end of the day homosexuals are not a minority group , because they are a group defined by their actions , just like alcoholics.
They are NOT a group defined by an immutable characteristic other then 'possibly' a characteristic to be inclined towards an action.
It is specifically the attempt to define their group as having an immutable characteristic that is cause for great concern.
For instance: there is more evidence that pedophilic behavior is fixed at an early stage in a individuals development then their is for homosexual behavior. there is significantly more evidence that alcoholism is an inherited trait the homosexuality. There is significantly more evidence that sociopath and thus serial murder. Are have strong genetic causes.
There are groups like the 'man boy love association' that are out there right now advocating for 'pedophiliac' rights in much the same way and using much the same logic as homosexual rights groups.
While we are at it perhaps we should include alcoholics as minorities allowing them special privileges that legitimize their actions like making it illegal to fire someone because they are drunk on the job.
The only way you can make the statement that homosexual rights groups are trying to validate the person is if you confuse the person with their action and divorce them from personal responsibility.
For instance, why oppose laws that outlaw homosexual sex, if you are looking to for legitimate sympathy for people with same sex attraction.
Why not advocate that the laws include a treatment clause much like the ones that we now have for public drunkenness? This would both help people to overcome their sexual problems and generate sympathy for the disease of homosexual attraction just as it does for the disease of alcoholism.
The need to get all such laws removed from the books comes from the specific agenda to have it fully recognized that homosexual actions and or sex are not a disease and their is nothing wrong with what they do.
It is really quite sad, because the loving friendship you admire would probably be significantly improved if the two women stopped having sexual relations with one another. So they are really loosing out because society at large denies the truth to them they desperately need and re-enforces their destructive behavior.
Posted 1 year ago #
Fishman-you bring up many fine points and I respect your opinion. My friends are fully aware of my position on their homosexual lifestyle. While I do not endorse their actions, I still love them and respect them because they are children of God. They know my position, I know theirs. I am not going to stop loving them because they sin. Nor am I going to continually tell them how sinful they are. They know where I stand.
In no way am I advocating "special privileges" for anyone. Respectfully, I think you went a bit over the top here.
I do not presume to have the answers to this complicated subject. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be making general statements about homosexuals as a whole. My friends do not "parade naked through the streets" nor do they "attack anyone and everyone who doesn't commend them for being who they are."
In the end it is up to God to judge their hearts. We are called to love. I think we should all, myself included, get busy loving and leave the rest up to God.
Posted 1 year ago #
Human beings are persons; made in the image and likeness of God.
The sadness is that we insist on identifying ourselves by our sin. There is no such thing as a "homosexual." There are human persons who engae in homosexual acts or human persons who struggle with same sex attraction. I am not a "recovering fornicator" any more than a person who has overcome their homosexual lifestyle is a "recovering homosexual."
We are all sinners, but our sin does not identify us. In Jesus Christ we are made new -- children of almighty God, our heavenly Father! We must humbly repent and believe in this good news and tell our neighbors. In my opinion, unless we truly see and treat one another as persons, both sides of the homosexual issue are sinning against the dignity of the human person, which clouds our abililty to act as the body of Christ.
Posted 1 year ago #
PTR,
I don't think anyone could have said it better!
AMEN!
Posted 1 year ago #
Royal
You wrote
homosexual behavior comes from masterbation.
Would you like to give some references to back up this claim?
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________
Posted 1 year ago #
Dear Ipioch, According to much research in psychiatry, homosexual behavior comes from masturbation. Males or females who choose to have sex with themselves first practice masturbation and from there they choose masturbation with a member of the same sex. The major psychological problem found in this behavior is a inherent refusal to accept responsibility for heterosexual concepts and behaviors. In other words, homosexuality is an irresponsible reaction to the God given gift of heterosexuality in refusal to interact appropriately with members of the opposite sex and to love others through acts of giving of self. Homosexuality can be summed up as an entirely selfish act of self masturbation excited by mutual masturbation for the purpose of self arousal and ejaculation or orgasm. The behavior of refusal to accept responsibility for the conception of human life is closely related to birth control and abortion which are all refusals to be responsible for the pro creation of human life. That is why this is a sin. Of course Christ is the judge not I nor you, yet it is important to understand that the act of homosexuality is majorly irresponsible. This can be found in the writing of Pope John Paul 11 titled, Love and Responsibility. In the Holy Love of God I am your brother and my name is Royal.
Posted 1 year ago #
Dear Noel, In the Holy Love of God I am your brother and my name is Royal.
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH
NOTIFICATION
regarding certain writings of
FR. MARCIANO VIDAL, C.Ss.R.
DOCTRINAL NOTE
1.General Evaluation
Moral de Actitudes is composed of three volumes. The first is devoted to fundamental moral theology.(1) The second is divided into two parts, the first on the morality of the person and bioethics,(2) and the second on the morality of love and sexuality.(3) The third volume treats social morality.(4) The Diccionario de ética teológica (5) offers a more concise, but still sufficiently detailed study of the principal concepts and themes of Christian morality.
Moral de Actitudes makes reference to the pastoral concern:
2. Specific Questions
The author maintains that contraceptive methods which intervene after fertilization and before implantation, are not abortifacient. He maintains that, generally speaking, they cannot be considered morally licit means of birth control;(24) however, they are morally acceptable “in situations of particular gravity, when it is impossible to have recourse to other means”.(25) The author applies this same standard of judgment to sterilization, stating that in some situations it does not pose a moral problem, “given that the intention is to achieve a human good in a responsible way”.(26) Both these positions are contrary to the teaching of the Church.(27)
The author holds that the doctrine of the Church on homosexuality possesses a certain coherence, but does not enjoy an adequate biblical foundation (28) and suffers from significant conditioning (29) and ambiguities.(30) It reflects the defects present “in the entire historical construct of Christian sexual ethics”.(31) In the moral evaluation of homosexuality, the author adds, one must “adopt a provisional attitude”, formulated “from the perspective of inquiry and openness”.(32) For the person who is irreversibly homosexual, a coherent Christian commitment “does not necessarily lead to the rigid morality of either becoming heterosexual or total abstinence”.(33) These positions are incompatible with Catholic doctrine, according to which there is a precise and well-founded evaluation of the objective morality of sexual relations between persons of the same sex.(34) The degree of subjective moral culpability in individual cases is not the issue here.
The author asserts that the “gravity ex toto genere suo of masturbation” has not been established. (35) In fact, personal conditions are objective elements of this behaviour and therefore “it is not correct to create an ‘objective abstraction’ from personal conditioning and make an evaluation that is universally valid from an objective point of view”.(36) “Not every act of masturbation is ‘objectively grave matter’”.(37) In this view, the judgment of Catholic moral teaching, according to which acts of autoeroticism are objectively intrinsically evil, would not be correct.(38)
With regard to responsible parenthood, the author states that none of the present methods of birth control is good in every respect. “It is inconsistent and dangerous to make an overall moral evaluation based on one particular method”.(39) While it is the responsibility of the Magisterium to give positive and negative guidance on the use of the various methods,(40) if conflicts of conscience arise, “the fundamental principle of the inviolability of the moral conscience would continue to be valid”.(41) But even prescinding from conflict situations, “the moral use of strictly contraceptive methods must be the object of the responsible discernment of the married couple”.(42) Among the various criteria presented by the author to guide this discernment,(43) there is no reference to the objective and binding character of the moral norm contained in the Encyclical Humanae vitae(44) and in other documents of the papal Magisterium before(45) and after.(46)
As you can see from the above text taken from the Vatican website concerning this subject, the interwoven logic regarding homosexuality is masturbation, birth control, abortion and the utter refusal to accept responsibility for the God-given gift of heterosexuality and pro-creation.
Posted 1 year ago #
Dear Noel, The volumes of books written on the subject of masturbation linking to homosexuality from the doctors of psychiatry and psychology are so numerous that I am not able here to list them all. I will post one on this note: In the Holy Love of God I am your brother and my name is Royal.
The Handbook of Clinical Adult Psychology - Google Books Result
by Stan J. E. Lindsay - 1994 - Psychology This is a place to start reading and you can easily take it from there to many authors of psychology whom have researched and treated this behavior and it's multipsychotic symptoms. |
Posted 1 year ago #
Royal
Many thanks for your reply to me. I am afraid I am not able to check the references you gave me. I have searched the web a little and I do not see the relationship between masturbation and homosexuality.
I note from the CCC:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.
I am no expert in this area, however I think I would agree with the CCC that concerning homosexuality the psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.
You might like to look at http://www.catholicculture.org/liturgicalyear/activities/view.cfm?id=528. I think it is sensible.
God bless,NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________
Posted 1 year ago #
Thanks, Royal.
There is no need to copy anything for me.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________
Posted 1 year ago #
Dear Noel, It is obvious in looking at the genetalia of man and woman that there is an intent that the genetalia is indeed complementary. Conversely, the genetalia of man and man is not complementary nor is the genetalia of woman and woman complementary. Also evident is the interaction of like genetalia with like genetalia that there can be no climax between the two that is not masturbatory. A man in sexual intercourse with a man will masturbate the other man and himself also a woman in sexual intercourse with a woman will masturbate the other woman and also herself. The only other alternative is for the man to insert (his penis) into an organ which is not designed for the purpose of sexual intercourse such as the mouth or the anus. Also there is the possibility of hand-touch arousal or what was referred to in my adolescence as "jerking off". Between women the forms of arousal and mutual masturbation are, precast rubber penis forms inserted to achieve masturbation, massagers, mouth/tongue to clitoris, mouth to mouth stimualtion of tongues and salivary, also hand-touch arousal toward climax and orgasm known between women as "jerking each other off".
Did I somehow give you the impression that the homosexual interaction between same sex was largely unexplained? The Catechism is stating that the psychology is largely unexplained, which makes sense as it is difficult to understand the satisfaction (or frustration) gained from same sex encounters as they do not lead to pro-creative satisfactions as in heterosexual marital bonds especially Sacramental Bonds. I am saddened that the Roman Catholic Catechism does not make a broader statement regarding homosexuality and especially self-masturbation and mutual same sex-masturbation and even opposite sex mutual masturbation, although Pope John Paul 11 has made many references in his writings, Love and Responsibility and Theology of the Body.(both writings can be found at the website www.vatican.va then search in the box at the upper right hand corner for either/and or more writings on file in the Vatican Library. The Pope did make highly qualified statements regarding the necessity for mutual simultaneous orgasm between husband as wife as a normative behavior, not to be confused with occasional behavior. I highly recommend that you read both books thoroughly. I can copy sections for you, although it would take a great deal of time to copy all his references, I can do that if you so desire. The Catechism of the Catholic Faith is not the preferred teaching tool of the Church for exposing errors in human behavior, rather for defining desired Catholic behaviors. In the Holy Love of God I am your brother and my name is Royal.
Posted 1 year ago #
Raven,
Your first post sounds very much like you are defending the actions of the homosexual rally. "Perhaps they "force it on society" as you say because they simply want to be accepted as human beings. They want to love and be loved just as much as us heterosexuals."
They have confused love and acceptance with forced tolerance. A person can be loved, but it is unreasonable to force or even ask society to love homosexuals BECAUSE of the lifestyle. We aren't called to love the person's lifestyle, just the person, and we are called to love homosexuals IN SPITE of their lifestyle.
Your story about the lesbian couple seems to try to justify their lifestyle, and though I can't read your heart or mind, it seems that you think it's okay, simply because they are productive members of society, are devoted to each other, and don't try to make anyone uncomfortable. That's not a recipe for a MORAL relationship, even if their relationship is
"much better" and more "loving" than many heterosexuals. There isn't a standard of measurement or a qualification which determines the order/disorder of a relationship. You're rationalizing their sin.
"All I'm saying is we all sin. We all fail. I'm not saying we should embrace the sin, but as followers of Christ we should embrace the sinner."
You are right in that statement, however, it is absurd to see your sin as no longer sinful, then try to force the rest of society to view it as not sinful either. Nobody is hating the sinner, we're just pointing out that the sin needs to be recognized as such, rather than as a valid lifestyle.
My own personal conviction: I won't go to visit the home of a homosexual couple, or a heterosexual couple living together but unmarried. To do so is to acknowledge that I support their lifestyle and living arrangement. I even have a hard time going to a wedding of a couple who lived together before marriage.
Posted 1 year ago #
Dear MattyMattyChooChoo, Bravo to you!
Christ Our Lord said, (of those immersed in sin) "Do not even touch their outer garment"
In the Holy Love of God I am your brother and my name is Royal.
Posted 1 year ago #
God loves you .
In this day and age, what with the 'more equal than you are' bullying of homosexual activists, I am inclined to agree with MattyMatty and royal - I can love them without being involved with them in any way.
That said, my homosexual housemate is no activist, nor very homosexual as contrasted to his women-hatred. And, to whom would he go, if not to someone who abides the chastity while giving him some hearing and understanding?
BTW, he so hates his Mom he traveled 600 miles each way and spent five days helping her pack to move from Ohio to Wisconsin.
Remember, I love you, too
Reminding that we are all on the same side - His,
Pristinus Sapienter
(wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
Dear wljewell, Here is what Saint Paul had to say(concerning a man having sexual intercourse with his mother):
"I condemn his flesh (body) to [hell] so that his soul may be saved in eternity".
This is a very stark and real example of how Catholic Christianity is to treat the sinner(whom is obstinate in his sin).
Of course for those whom will repent of that sin, their very flesh is also saved in eternity.
In the Holy Love of God I am your brother and my name is Royal.
Posted 1 year ago #
PS
Thank you for your most recent email. I always feel uplifted by your posts, even when I do not really understand them.
Royal
I am a bit confused about your reading of Paul.
Paul wrote:
It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife (NRSV, 1 Cor 5:1)
This does not necessarily imply a man having sexual intercourse with his mother, as you write.
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I also have a problem about ostracising people whom we consider are living in sin, as homosexual partners or outside Catholic marriage. I do not think we should judge others.
If young people who are unmarried are boycotted by the Church and their families they will possibly leave the Church permanently. If parents reject their children who are living with partners, families will split and the Church will be damaged in the long term.
I think it is better not to be too judgemental, pray for each other and keep communication open.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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Posted 1 year ago #
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