Catholic Exchange Forums » Faith and Life

Take a Look at This One ... #1

(14 posts)

Jakes - Moderator

Take A Look At This One ... #1

Terrorists caused mayhem in September 2001, supposedly because they hated the United States. So what did they do? They murdered more than 3,000 persons WHOM THEY DIDN’T HATE.

Now, how can anyone make such a statement? How could anyone know whether or not they hated the 3,000? ... VERY EASILY!

Ask yourself: "How could I hate 3,000 persons whom I don’t even know?"

Are half of them women and half men? "Well, I really don’t know."

How many are married, with families? "Well, I really don’t know."

How many of the women are pregnant, bearing another life? "Well, I really don’t know."

How many of them are children? "Well, I really don’t know."

Of the children, how many are nursing infants? "Well, I really don’t know."

This was in a cosmopolitan city; are they all Americans? "Well, I really don’t know."

How many of them are Muslims visiting or on business? "Well, I really don’t know."

Nor could the terrorists answer these questions before their mayhem. But, surely, not knowing the victims they COULD NOT HATE THEM!

They certainly did not love them. However, in more normal times, before hatred and murder had become a motivation, had the opportunity ever arisen, for any of them to have met and socialized with - really socialized with - many of the 3,000, surely these would have found some among that large group quite pleasant to be with, some even endearing.

So, what’s the answer? The answer is that they neither loved nor hated the particular persons they murdered. Rather, they were INDIFFERENT to the rights and dignity of any group of human beings - preferably any large group, mainly Americans - whom they could murder spectacularly on American soil.  They surely hated (or envied) our culture and, likely, our successful economic system, but they didn't hate those 3,000!

What about INDIFFERENCE? Well, it can be understood for what it is if you start with the knowledge that LOVE of another, at a minimum entails CARING about that person’s wellbeing with a willingness to do what you can to enhance that wellbeing, to HELP however you, reasonably, are able.

Hatred isn’t the opposite of love, INDIFFERENCE is. Indeed valorous happenings can come out of hatred directed properly, such as one’s hating injustice toward the poor so vigorously that one becomes the champion of poor who have suffered injustices.

Suicide bombers, as well as the 9-11-01 terrorists employ INDIFFERENCE, as they know not, NOR CARE whom they will kill, maim or deprive of family members.

The curse of human PRIDE plays a part as well with terrorists, as revelations of video-taped, final evenings of the murderous dudes have shown!

In ways distinct from the directness of terrorism as we recognize it, America is not free of INDIFFERENCE, either, HARDLY SO.

 

Peace,

Jakes

Posted 1 year ago #
lpioch - Moderator

Extremely well said.  Reminds me of lukewarmness.  It is not those that are hot or cold...but the lukeward that God will vomit out of his mouth.

Let us pray that we not become spiritually indifferent - neither loving nor hating God or others.

Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Right on the money, Jakes. The least understood sin of our culture is our vast differences in maintained distances, even from our next door neighbors. There just is too much 'it's not my business' out there. What is incredible about my 'agnostic' daughter is how involved she gets with people - just like her Mama. She not only knows the business of her elderly neighbors - one a lonely widow - she does as she can for them. Her friends know to bank on her at their worst times. She is more angel than she will ever be much of anything else. And, whether she knows it or not, in God's love she gives love away. I'd rather her (seeming) God-indifference over neighbor-indifference first because needy humans cannot apply for help as easily as God can elicit response to Himself; secondly, because God IS gonna get her, one of these days. Try as hard as one will, to use one's heart and will for good is to eventually encounter the Sacred Heart right next to her. For all I know, she already has noticed, even as resisting; and the gentle, patient Father already is getting His daughter for Himself. The One Who suffered so to save any and all of us will struggle successfully to save us if we just let Him. Remember, I love you, too Reminding that we are all on the same side - His, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

Very good, Jakes.

The only thing I thought of is that while some 3,000 died on 9/11, the WTC typically held some 35,000 people daily.  So the indifference of the terrorists was leveraged to murder many times more people than they ended up actually killing.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tarheel - Member

Good point Jakes.  And you are correct it is the indifference to others rights and dignity not real hate.  Hate is a word used by the media as indifference doesn't grab the reader's or viewer's attention.

 

Let me say this about indifference.  I was trained while I was in the military to be a sniper.  Being indifferent helped me do what I had to do.

 

Pray to God that we all learn not to be indifferent.  Been then again can any of us be a good Catholic if we are indifferent?

 

Tarheel

Posted 1 year ago #
AlvinaL - Inactive

This is a good article and good responses about charity vs indifference (lukewarmness).  Almost every day we are reminded through the media that terrorists are conditioned to be indifferent to killing for Jhadist purposes.  As Christians we learn that the secret of overcoming differences of race or culture is to realize that the object of our charity is Jesus himself.  When we look upon our fellow men, it is Jesus whom we see.

Let us pray for the conversion of Muslims, Jews and atheists.  Let us pray for the re-conversion of Catholics who have become lukewarm.  Many didn’t have the opportunity to learn the elementary Truth of the Catholic faith or lost it by the bad example of others and the media.

Pardon me for being redundant for recommending a book about Lukewarmness The Devil in Disguise by Fr. Francis Carvajal (available at Amazon).

It was an eye opener for me!  I’ve given copies to those who have the responsibility of teaching Catholic youth and adult education.  The book helps us to understand what happens when a soul drifts away from God.

Posted 1 year ago #
Tarheel - Member

Thanks for the book suggestion.  Now I have another reason to visit my local Barney No Bless.  That's Barnes and Nobles to those of you without a cajun gene in you.

 

Thanks!

Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member

Jakes,

I don't think this promotes kindness nor good thoughts.

Think on these things, whatever is pure, lovely, honest, of good report, things that produce good fruit.

Things of heaven are first pure, than holy, of lasting good fruits..  

I learned this today while meditating that a peaceful resolution no matter how urking it may be thwarts the enemies design. 

By peaceful: when you feel the urking madness of anger, or your friend, spouse, parent, child decides to say something other than the mentioned above. 

I read one of replies above and I felt no peace in those words. But rather a word of ah you're all gonna get it!

This is not for us to judge, who's gonna get it or who's not.   

We should rather pray for those who do not understand.  Believe and God will change everything.  He's waiting for us to believe in Him to change everything.  Faith moves God, without it time lags by while the enemy dances around.

Peace 

Posted 1 year ago #
Jakes - Moderator

I just thought I'd comment for the purpose of moving the ideas of this thread back into an easier viewing position, as they'll have relevance to further, related thoughts.

Peace,

Jakes

Posted 1 year ago #
royal osiodhachain - Inactive
Dear jakes, Only one problem with your debate question; and my response is similar...How many Iraquis have Americans killed that they did not hate in return for the 3000 that the "terrorists" killed?? Also second question, Who named these people terrorists then treat them as paramilitary enemies??? 

I am sorry if I sound sarcastic. I do believe the government of the USA is hypocritical and equally at fault for injustice, murder, mayhem, destruction, axis of evil, terror, bombing, shooting and finally ......killing. In the Holy Love of God I am your brother in Christ and my name is Royal
Posted 1 year ago #
Jakes - Moderator

Many thanks to the all the solid posters who made salient comments in this thread.  Others, too, such as GK, Michaelme, NoelFitz and Mary Kochan (and I'm sure I've missed others I shouldn't have). 

I'd like to direct the attention of such as these to the thread "What Fools These Mortals Be!" for their ideas and initiatives to spread awareness among all Americans franchised to vote, that the human being in the womb is the neighbor of us all, whom we've been COMMANDED TO LOVE (as is her mother, often subjected to unspeakable pressures and threats by an unscrupulous male "to get rid of that kid" - so he can evade responsibilities of fatherhood)!!  

And all this is enabled by politicians in thrall of the multi-billion dollar abortion industry.  That can change dramatically in 2008 as conscientious voters make democracy work again.   

Peace,          Jakes

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Jakes,

You wrote:  (as is her mother, often subjected to unspeakable pressures and threats by an unscrupulous male "to get rid of that kid" - so he can evade responsibilities of fatherhood)!!  

While I realize the truth in your statement, I must note that, with any sin, culpability abounds. The parents of the father, the parents of the mother, peers, and societal norms all play a major role in the decision making process. We need better educated adults who can then better educate their children and their neighbors on the sanctity of life.

By the way, this country was established to be a republic not a democracy, as our founding fathers had an understanding that all democracies in history have failed because the politicians always ended up making more entitlements for themselves, ultimately breaking the backs of the people and the government for which they were supposed to stand.

In Christ,

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #
Jakes - Moderator

Thanks, David for your two, well expressed points, with which I agree.

As to the first, I might err on the side of simplicity so as to direct attention to a doable target for immediate attention.  (God knows, some of my ramblings are wanting for simplicity, as it is).

I identify the innocent child and the pressured mother as two neighbors we can all recognize (particularly conscientious persons eligible to vote.  And may I add here, our target must not be just a concentration on the office of the presidency, but filling every office, federal, state and local, as possible, with office holders who will recognize the propriety of "Love of Neighbor" or, if some prefer: the Golden Rule in relating to others.)   

Surely, it's not just the irresponsible male in a pregnant woman's life  who pressures her, but all the elements of our self-seeking culture of death, with so much of it seeking and obtaining wealth and "kicks" (and political tenure) out of it. 

Just look at the stampede for embrionic stem-cell research (with all the "gainful" employment, fame and wealth that portended for scientists and entrepreneuers - based mostly on pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking) without a second thought about its morality, its track record of zero accomplishments while adult stem-cell research went ahead achieving many, tangible accomplishments.  And now, see where we are; surely, love and morality should have been fairly considered in the beginning.

Yes, there are more guilty parties other than just the male boyfriend.  And there are broader goals than loving just the unborn and her mother, such as the love there should be in marriages and families.  And more direct attention can come to all that subsequently.  But right now the urgency of the 3,000+ human beings killed each day for selfish (un-loving) purposes seems to be the correct target.

As to the democracy-republic issue, would I be wrong to stress the democratic/election aspect as the avenue to use to begin the necessary changes in what, ultimately, will be an iterative process, not "just one election and that does it"?

Thanks again, David. 

Peace,        Jakes 

 

Posted 1 year ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Jakes,

Hear! Hear! or is it Here! Here!

No matter as they both will do. I listen and am here with you on your points. I read one politician, who, upon learning of the recent success of transforming cells into workable cells, stated that people like her would still need to pursue embryonic stem cell research. Says a lot in so few words.

Yes, we must take our country back and impose restrictions on the power of those who impose restrictions on the people until we return to sanity.

In Christ,

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.

Donate

Welcome to our redesigned site. Your continued support will make further improvements possible. Please click here to donate.

CE Spotlight

Faith Factory

Champions of Faith Ad

Radio & Podcasts


Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge