Catholic Exchange Forums » Faith and Life

Obama's speech on Faith and Politics

(9 posts)

jofa - Member

If anyone has time to review and critique, I'd be really interested in help debunking some of his assumptions and reasoning. Must warn you, it's long (approx. 39 min.) but you can skip around some. This speech is being circulated and touted on the email circuit:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/faith/

Darn good speech, I might add. Very sincere, yet sincerely wrong.

Praise Jesus!

Posted 1 year ago #
jofa - Member

What I'm mostly looking for is how to respond to a christian friend of mine who found this speech inspiring, etc. One of her statements to me was "I'm pro-life personally, but since it is a moral issue I can't force my morals on others". Thus, voting for pro-choice candidates is fine in her mind.

I have some idea how to respond, but would like to make a logical case (short one) on why we must vote our morality, not just rebut the idea that pro-life is not a religious viewpoint.

Anyone?

Posted 1 year ago #
Jakes - Moderator

jofa,  might the following be helpful, though not directed specifically to the speech you identify?

Strings such as this, discussing attributes of any competing candidate vying to become a major party’s nominee for president in 2008, are interesting, informative and, thereby, valuable. It would seem that reasons such discussions arise is that some aspects of candidates’ character, beliefs, experience and competencies aren’t known to the degree of certainty voters might wish and need, to select that candidate or a competitor, for the voter’s personal support or rejection.

This candidate-comparison process is one demanding significant energy and attention. It, surely, isn’t completely hit-or-miss but likely could leave - without full clarity - the degree of, and comparable importance of, aspects of various candidates’ character, skills, competencies, track records or other attributes or flaws. (Have not competing candidates been known to try to spin various aspects of their opponents’ makeup in ways not intended to make other candidates look their best and to spin their own favorably?  A little understating, there.)

Yes, but how does the voting public get around conducting this sort of necessary jiu-jitsu in the election process? Well, I wouldn’t recommend jettisoning this approach. Rather, I would hope that we voters would turn things around (i.e., prioritize things) so as to define clearly, OUR foundational interests so that candidates would need to address them candidly to our satisfaction. At least then, issues salient to one side of the equation (the constituency) would be a known-known (and realities about the other side might start to become more objectively knowable).

You see, instead of our trying, exclusively, to delve into the real abilities and agendas of competing candidates, all candidates would know for certainty what OUR agenda is.  And that wouldn't pertain only to competitors for the office of president but to competitors for office throughout the whole political process.  OUR priorities would play upon the whole political spectrum, not just to the one office of the presidency, as important as that office is.  But recent political games in Washington have shown how "checks and balances" can become overly weighted toward "checks" with stiffling (therefore, unproductive, expensive, dangerous) effects on government accomplishments at home and abroad. 

For Catholics and most other Americans, I believe that agenda needs to begin by the clear defining of our belief in respect to the inherent dignity of the lives of our neighbors, starting, particularly with the lives of those little, innocent, defenseless neighbors of ours who are ravaged by abortion, and of related attrocities toward human life promoted in a Culture of Death in America. (Also, young women, our neighbors as well, deserve our love and respect as - by their having been identified legally to be the exclusive agent for "fingering" an unborn human being for (legal!) death - have been placed in the untenable position of being targets of pressures from boyfriends and from the whole Death Culture apparatus whose desire is to "get rid of that kid".  Make no mistake about it loose living and abortion are not the friends of women!)

Now, you might say "But all that will bring in others defining their particular interests", to which we should say "GOOD". because one such group would be the Culture of Death - which can’t promote or argue its preposterous creed without using language guile, untruths and exaggeration. Examples follow: Using the phrase "The right to choose...." while leaving out what is being chosen. (Shhs, It’s
"abortion", which they dare not mention forthrightly.) Another of their rediculous constructs is "REproductive freedom" which tries to finesse the reality that REproduction has already ocurred and that’s really why they want DEproduction (killing) to take place.

Should the Culture of Death, during this presidential campaign, care to engage and contest the truth of God’s Great COMMANDMENT: "Love your neighbor as yourself" and its relevance toward abortion where they won’t be able to practice their usual "Duck in; tell preposterous lies; then duck out" approach, they’re done for! Once the discussion becomes engaged they won’t be able to "duck out" and hide the duplicitous thinking and language on which their philosophy relies. And should they attempt, from the start, to sit out (to ignore) such a discussion through this long political campaign, that would be sufficiently revealing to all of America of their guile, so as to cook their goose!

Friends, the Culture of Death will meet its "death throes" in this campaign if we’re sensible!

Peace, Jakes

Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Yes, B.O. has one of the most sincere egos around! I have noticed it for some years, now, since he is one of my Senators, federally - the other is 'Tricky Dicky' Durbin - Illinoisans are cursed. (In my usual typing expertise, 'federally' originally came out 'ferally' - Freudian truth?) Wherever he or any mention the 'choice' and other euphemisms, put into 'the murderous, dismembering execution of an innocent unborn person'. Ask any starry-eyed friend to read it thence. I do notice that B.O. thought that people of faith ought to get 'universal' - something I thought Moses explicating natural laws in the Ten Commandments, and Christ simplifying them to Two Great Commandments did millennia before B.O. was the hyperactive casual thought he should be came about. Indeed, Christ left His Church, to be one flock, universally. Remember, I love you, too . Toward our holy and prosperous New Year in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
lpioch - Moderator

Here's an exerpt from a talk I wrote/gave about Love for Freedom and about Public Life.  For this question, it's not an absolute answer (it was not written to address this specific question) but may give food for thought:

 

 

I repeat again that there can be no distinction made between one’s personal faith life and one’s daily life. Because there can be no distinction, the Church has a right, a duty, and a responsibility to guide Catholics in doctrinal and moral matters. Moral matters are not found only in the Church, but are fully integrated into society, including political life. The “separation of church and state” that so many people cling to today refers to the fact that trouble arises when a state embraces a particular faith, especially to the exclusion of others, and coerces its people to that one faith. You don’t have to look far today, much less throughout history to see how dangerous this is. You also can derive this reality from what was said above about a true love of freedom. Today, however, many people mistake the notion of “separation of church and state” to mean that if a topic or issue is being controlled or dealt with by the state, the church must step away from it. What those people are expecting us to do is to become schizophrenic, which is ludicrous.

Posted 1 year ago #
lpioch - Moderator

Of course, here's a great quote from St. Josemaria Escriva (from Furrow #301):

 

It is not true that there is opposition between being a good Catholic and serving civil society faithfully. In the same way there is no reason why the Church and the State should clash when they proceed with the lawful exercise of their respective authorities, in fulfillment of the mission God has entrusted to them. Those who affirm the contrary are liars, yes, liars! They are the same people who honor a false liberty, and ask us Catholics “to do them the favor” of going back to the catacombs.

Posted 1 year ago #
Jakes - Moderator

I've done some editing to my former post.

Peace,         Jakes        

Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . In the Breitbarth flash string http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U0NRI80&show_article=1, Obama and Clinton are fighting over who can be at least 100% 'pro-choice' - meaning being completely (if not 110%) for 'the murderous, dismembering execution of an innocent unborn person'. Of course, in the B.O. campaign call to Wendy Frosh, chair of the board of Planned Parenthood in Northern New England, the Obama camp threw in "a champion for women's rights" . . . meaning the woman's effectively arbitrary right to opt for 'the murderous, dismembering execution of an innocent unborn person' without regard for any rights of the innocent victim. I wish I could get a transcript of the Obama wunder-faith speech. Remember, I love you, too . Toward our holy and prosperous New Year in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
jofa - Member

Thanks so much everyone - very helpful. If anyone is interested, plug in a search for "seperation of church and state truth" for more extensive discussion of the media's/politicians' misrepresentation of this issue.

Wise men still seek Him.

Posted 1 year ago #

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