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Why do catholics use a different Old Testament than the canon the Jews chose?

(11 posts)

jofa - Member

I realize that Martin Luther went with the Old Testament canon ratified by a jewish council while the Church has always kept the complete canon as used by the early Christians. Correct so far? I'm shakey on all of this.

Anyway, I had heard (not read; have no documentation) that the jews in authority at the time of the council that decided their official canon were the equivalent, if not still called, Saducees.  The saducees were, of course, the jews who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead and challeged Jesus on that issue. If this is accurate, that means people who did not believe in the resurrection of the dead were then able to successfully throw out any scripture (esp. Maccabees) that mention prayer for the dead, etc.

That's what I heard, but can not verify.

Does anyone know is there is any truth to this? In any case, why did Martin Luther change the Bible by going with a council of those not under the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

If anyone can clear this up for me (perhaps with documentation or online links, etc. I would be very grateful).

Thank you.

Praise Jesus!

Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . I wish you a merrily Blessed Christmas! First, it is our Christian canon - we made our choices in part beyond Jewish ideas of canon, if and as we saw fit. And, yes, I note 'we' in a sort of Lindberghian inclusion with our Church Fathers. Second, and more to the point, the Jewish canon initially was only informally fixed, in modern terms. The Jewish scholars only fixed their canon, so to speak, even as the Christian canon of both Old and New testaments were being formed. In the late first century and early second century, the Jews formalized their canon as it stands today - and, as Martin Luther chose to make his Old Testament, in order to avoid what Protestants call 'the Apocrypha' - having things like Maccabees and the idea of Purgatory and such like. So, the Jews have their Old Testament, which is the whole of revelation to them. The Protestants adopted it for themselves. The Catholic Church in its earliest councils decided on the Old Testament we use. Yes, let us praise Jesus for our Bible. Remember, I love you, too . In our delighted glory in our Infant King, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
lpioch - Moderator

For way more information that you probably wanted, take a look at the Encyclopedic entry at New Advent.  The key is "which Jews" made their decision for the canon, and when.

The question the protestants have to answer is WHY they went with the canon that was decided upon AFTER the destruction of the temple (and hence, after these Christians were spreading about), and WHY they went with the canon that does not include the "books" that many many of the early Church figures clearly cited and used. 

Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

Ever wonder why Jews celebrate Channukah?

Isn't the Channukah story in the book of Maccabees?

Posted 1 year ago #
work in progress - Inactive

When the Dead Sea scrolls were found, they presented proof that the Jews in Alexandria used the 7 Deutero-Canonical books. It was the Palestinian Jews that rejected these books. As I understand the history, it was the Palestinian Jews that rejected Jesus as the Messiah (not the Jews in ALexandria).  It is, therefore, rather perplexing that this is the Old Testament the protestants chose to use. Hm-m-m.  Oddly enough, the original King James Version included the 7 Deutero-Canonical books.

 

"The Catholic Church frames the Christian life as one in which you must exercise virtue—not because virtue saves you, but because that's the way God's grace gets manifested." Dr. Francis J. Beckwith

Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

The communion of saints, praying for the dead, and doctrinal support for purgatory are evident in these books.  It is not so odd that the King James version has them, because these doctrines were not the reasons for the Anglican split from the Church.

Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
WIP,

Pharisees, Sadduccess, Scribes, Essenes,  They denied Christ.  They were looking for proof... Prove to us you are the Son of God.  Jerusalem all the way.....  Sanhedrin....  a very few believed and were converted. If they all believed.. then the Temple would be a Church.  


for a good FAQ on bible:  http://www.drbo.org/catechism.htm

for more on inspired: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08045a.htm

for bible editions: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05286a.htm


Peace and good will towards all
Posted 1 year ago #
Winslow - Inactive

"Sanhedrin....  a very few believed and were converted."

 

I read somewhere, I think it was an ancient document on the "Church Fathers" section of New Advent, which said many of the Sanhedrin came to the Apostles in the dead of night to converse with them about Jesus.  We know about Joseph of Aramethia and Nicodemus, but the list included Gameliel, Alexander *and Caiaphas*!

Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member
Winslow,

a few more converted.  Can't remember all the names but, it's a bit more.
John the Scribe comes to mind.

Peace
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . On the topic, it has to be seen that the difference between Catholic Scripture and that accepted mainly via Luther in the Reformation as a sort of secondary of apologia for the long-held, painstaking canon in Catholicism as set against the truth-seeking claimed by most leaders (such as they are) of Protestants. It surely is a good question, that: "Why did Luther reject the full, long-standing canon of Old Testament Scripture for a canon mainly derived from post-Christ and counter-Christian Jews?" For once, it would be up to them to '(gulp!)' for their answer. Remember, I love you, too . In our delighted glory in our Infant King, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
jofa - Member

Thank you all for your input. It has been very helpful. I think wljewell sums it up so well with:

"Why did Luther reject the full, long-standing canon of Old Testament Scripture for a canon mainly derived from post-Christ and counter-Christian Jews?"

I thought it was worth repeating.

Praise Jesus!

Posted 1 year ago #

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