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Catholic identity of the diocese

(16 posts)
  • Started 11 months ago by MattyMattyChooChoo
  • Latest reply from MattyMattyChooChoo

MattyMattyChooChoo - Inactive

I live in a mission diocese in the southern United States.  Our only bishop retired over a year ago, leaving the diocese in the hands of a less than orthodox "diocesan administrator".  Many of the priests in the diocese have embraced the new age spirituality ranging from "centering prayer" to enneagrams.  These priests also allow the congregations to adopt whatever posture they see fit during the consecration (95% of the congregants sit).  The previous bishop refused to address the issue even after the presented with the discrepancy by the judicial vicar.   Our Catholic population is aging rapidly, and taking on more and more of the new age and protestant identities rather than a stronger Catholic identity.  Mass attendance is falling, and the good priests are either retired in residence or on their way to retirement.  From the 30,000Catholics in the area, we have only 5 seminarians.  There is only one priest who is even interested in celebrating a Tridentine Latin Mass.  Another priest has even made fun of the potential TLM priest DURING MASS by waving his hands over the altar and asking if he should be more like Fr. so-and-so!

 

I spoke with a friend earlier this week, and she suggested I write to various religious orders to try and persuade them to found an order in our area.  I know this would not be a cure-all, but does it help a  diocese to have religious orders nearby?  If so, are there any orders you might suggest who would bring orthodoxy and a love for the Church?

 

Please help! 

 

 

 

 

Posted 11 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

You should also follow the chain of command.

Take up your concerns with the priest(s) first of all.  Even if you know that your voicing your thoughts will get nowhere.

Then you take up your concerns with the bishop.  Even if you know that your voicing your thoughts will get nowhere.

Then you write to Rome with your concerns (after having followed protocol above).  I am assured that eventhough you feel like you're sending it to a black hole, that such letters are read and considered seriously.  It all just may take TIME. 

Prayer and sacrifice.

Posted 11 months ago #
Tarheel - Member

That is hard to hear.  Just where are you located?  I myself am in Mobile AL and we have a very wonderful diocese that has a great Catholic identity.

Tarheel (Dave)

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
darn,

pray to Jesus the High Priest.
get to know Him and the rest won't matter.

because your focus should be Christ regardless of the non-sense you are obviously in.  The world is in your Parish.  Have to ask Jesus to show you how to make your adoration and honor to Him a witness to those who obviously lost touch with.  There a many parishes that have gone dead in the faith.  They don't believe in the Eucharist, they feel Christ is delaying and so forth.  So the bottomline their faith is gone fishing.  Have to light the fire within yourself and hope it catches others
on fire too.  Pray alot more and spend time in Litany's.

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
MattyMattyChooChoo - Inactive

I have addressed the issues with one such priest, even bringing a copy of the Vatican document condemning enneagrams, but he would have none of it.  

 

We currently do not have a bishop. He retired just after Christmas 2006, and the Holy Father has not yet appointed a replacement.

 

 The idea of inviting a religious order to live is to have more strong Catholics to live as an example and permeate the diocese.

 

I live in the Shreveport diocese. 

Posted 11 months ago #
Winslow - Inactive

What was the retired bishop like regarding the issues you have?  Does he know about the situation?  What would his reaction be?  If he would object, that's where I'd start.

 When Cardinal Justin Rigali was in St. Louis I wrote him expressing similar concerns.  He wrote me back saying there wasn't much he could do about it and suggested I write the Pope, with the comment I wasn't to assume such a letter wouldn't go anywhere.  Write to him asking for advice.  Ask him to take the matter up with the U.S. bishops' council and that they take the matter to the Pope, who is the *only one on earth* who can do something about it.  And write to him, too. 

If there are any number of Catholics in your area who feel as you do, consider organizing them for the purpose of evangelizing all Catholics in your diocese.  If you can get a significant number of people angry enough, you can accomplish a lot, not least, withholding what is dearest to the heart of most bishops, $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!

 

Peace

Posted 11 months ago #
JosephMary - Moderator

Ave Maria!

My diocese is not much better. Our bishop retires shortly but writing to him about abuses and problems in the parish never seemed to get anyone anywhere that I know of.  My pastor invited a protestant to give our annual 'parish mission'!! Unbelievable but that is the level of the Catholic faith here. Yes I did put in a polite request for the TLM but the pastor has no interest in learning it and said there is not enough support for it which is most likely true as we ahve been heterodox for decades.

 

The 'sisters' do such things as teach tai-chi, centering prayer, enneagram and even dream interpretation. There is a lot of the so called 'peace and justice' stuff but very very little support for pro-life.

 

I can hardly stand it sometimes.  So we ahve a good bible study in my home and I keep my prayer life active and attend weekday Mass at a hospital chapel. Of course it is somewhat more of the same with liturgical abuses at every Mass. Father told us today that one of the fruits of Vatican Ii was liturgical dance. Right--bad fruit.

 

Actually, my family is considering moving from this liturgical wasteland. I really wish my children to experience the Roman Catholic Church and not just the shell of it that we have here where the Gospel is not preached and father only talks about himself. I have had enough!

 

So I understand your frustration. But I have seen that in other places where the faith has been weakened that the faith and prayers of a remnant have been heard and a good and holy bishop has been appointed, I have been praying hard for this to happen in my diocese. I know of another diocese that was even worse than yours and mine and the old bishop died and a new faithful one was brought in and they went from zero to 17 seminarians in about 2 years. Changes can come!

Posted 11 months ago #
MattyMattyChooChoo - Inactive

My parish, which I attend on Sundays, is a good and decent parish with two good priests.  The pastor is working toward the TLM, and the associate priest just celebrated his 50 year anniversary last year.  Both are great priests.  The parishoners are more appreciative of tradition, but it doesnt extend beyond the parish. 

 

The former bishop was confronted by the judicial vicar on the issue of full congregations sitting during the consecration.  The bishop said he was close to retiring and he'd leave it for the next bishop to address.

 

The other parishes I have visited are a disaster.  The parishoners which everyone designate as the "extremely orthodox" and "uber-traditional" seem to have a great understanding of Catholic morality (NFP, etc.) but their liturgical knowledge leaves much to be desired.  You can't get anyone upset if they don't understand why they should be upset.  Sadly, the lay people in charge of ministry at these parishes also hold illegal immigrant solidarity day, enneagram workshops, centering prayer workshops, and the book clubs and spirituality groups read Richard Rohr and Joan Chittister.  The pastors open Mass with jokes about last night's football game or make a mockery of the latin Mass.  When my wife and I attended our first Mass at our current parish, she commented after Mass that it was the first time in a year that she had seen me smile coming out of Mass.   

 

I am not originally from Louisiana, I was raised in Texas, and my brother always jokes that the new age presence is the modern manifestation of the voodoo for which Louisiana is legendary. 

 

One major problem I have with moving to a new diocese is we can't just keep jumping from rock to rock.  Eventually we'll run out of rocks.  Somebody has to fight the secularism in the parishes.  I think that's what we're called to do. 

 

Thanks for the encouragement and commiseration. 

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member

Where the authority fails the those who are faithful take their place.

What happens if you're out in the middle of no where and you have no donkey, no horse, no vehicle, no cell phone, no other means to travel, and communicate?  You missed Mass for two weekends, you end up sinning mortally as well as venialy, and no priest to confess?  no eucharist to feast on?  what do you do?  do you wait to be rescued like most inert folks or do you trust in God?

This is how you should always think.  How should I live daily?

Sure enough we came into this world bare, we leave bare.  
The pagan thinking is ah we have this and this, so now we are less stressed able to relax.  Relying on things rather than God.

Peace

Posted 11 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator
Well, I certainly would not say relying on the familial relationship of good priests and bishops is merely "relying on things."  However, I agree that ultimately we have to trust that God will provide for his children.  But he wants us to pray unceasingly and to sacrifice while we wait.  We cannot just sit and complain.  And we cannot just sit.
Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Jesus says,  Be Still and Know I am God, then after He has you in His hands, His Finger Directs.

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Anxiousness is of the flesh,

Fruits of the spirit are ........ peace.......joy.......temperance.......
peace means calm inner spirit, His peace must rule your feelings and emotions, or submit your feelings and emotions to His peace.

Galatians Chapter 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, 23 Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity. Against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified their flesh, with the vices and concupiscences.


Lukes Gospel Chapter 21

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (anxiousness) <this part is most important for what I'm referring to ] [ this part is for future pondering>and drunkenness and the cares of this life: and that day come upon you suddenly. 35 For as a snare shall it come upon all that sit upon the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye, therefore, praying at all times, that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are to come and to stand before the Son of man.

A little lesson, the Gore depicted in Revelations is not quite what it reads.  Here in this verse Jesus says "that day will come upon you suddenly"  as a thief in the night.  Take a look around, can we see the
7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 plagues?  No.  We do not see them, we feel it's
happenings.  Noah's day was the same, they were eating and drinking
and laughing at Noah.  But, Shazam! Out comes the waters!

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

B

You wrote:

Jesus says,  Be Still and Know I am God. 

Jesus did not say this, except as a pious Jew praying the Psalms.

Please see Psalm 46:10:

 “Be still, and know that I am God!

I am exalted among the nations,

I am exalted in the earth.”

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 11 months ago #
Dspencer - Inactive

Follow protocol as to who to approach BUT

Enlist as many people as possible in approaching/writing the various offices of the Church.  Numbers count and numbers work.  Just like in politics.  Be respectful, but gather like-minded Catholics with you.  Don't write a single letter to the Bishop or Vatican signed by all, rather, write individual letters coordinated in time to arrive at their offices. 

Above all, don't succumb to despair or inappropriate behavior/comments.  Respectfully present your concerns and PRAY PRAY PRAY.

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Jesus is the Word,  From the beginning was the Word.  He gives His words to those who seek Him.

All scripture is the Word of God.  Remember that.  That Bible you read has His signature on it.  

Word through the Holy Spirit, to the mouths of prophets-major and minor, and judges, kings-David, Solomon < Old Testament.  

New Testament new breed, but same principles still apply, but the titles of
men have changed such as Apostles, Disciples, Faithful, prophetic utterance through whom the Word deems or chooses.  And it can be any one, because the Holy Spirit is now free to roam the Earth.  The eyes of the Lord roam through and forth the Earth seeking whom He wills.  He looks at hearts.  We cannot change God, God can change us.  And He administers regardless of what we think.  We are ants in comparison to the Infinite.

Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word which proceeds out
of the mouth of God.  

God gives man, everything-- basic necessities for the flesh--creature, such as food, raimant, so forth.

spiritualy: wisdom-- most important, knowledge, for God is Creator and He supplies all our needs according to His riches and glory. For without wisdom from God you wouldn't be able to determine where all this comes
from.  So a 'private revelation' is in order.  How do you think, prophets, judges, kings got through life?  

Now that Grace is restored the Holy Spirit goes about at Gods direction to reveal Christ, a private revelation. Without a private revelation no one would hear, see, know God.  What is a private revelation?  Is it concerning some event in the future? Maybe. Is it concerning something in the past? Could be. The private revelation we talk mostly about is the revelation of Jesus Christ to each individual so they come to know Christ as a true friend, master, savior, redeemer, God.  

When you read a book about say Truman Copote a biography
written by someone who studied Truman or it can be one of his close friends or relatives.  It's not Truman doing the introduction, nor giving his life story.  When we read Gods Word, it is God revealing Himself to that person who reads its.  Much different.  

But how can it seem that way when say David writes a psalm or two?  Or Solomon writing a proverb or two, or Moses writing Exodus, or Genesis?  Or Gospel?  Maybe a letter from Paul?  The correlation here is that God inspires men to write about things that are God based.  The Word of God inspires.  If you spend enough time in the scriptures you see the Word, you hear the Word, and you imitate the Word.  And finally you "Know" the Word and Hear
His Voice.  And say "that is the Jesus the Word."  My sheep know Me and Hear My Voice.  Your ears are they tuned to His Voice?

Lets say you have never read the scriptures, and you go to church and hear the Word, the Word takes root depending on how much it intrigued
you. Then you go to receive the Word in Bread minus the Wine(priests only in my parish). The Word is now in you in a different way, but still the Word.  Because Jesus is the Word of God. No matter how you slice it.  This is basic Christianity 101. And this came by "private revelation".

St. Johns Gospel Chapter 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

He has spoken through the prophets.  Moses a prophet and a judge, the first judge over men.  The Word speaking to Abraham about being the father of many nations.  The Word speaking to Noah about preparing for the flood.  The Word speaking to Adam and Eve about not eating of that particular tree.
The Word speaking to so many in the scriptures.  The Word speaking to St. Paul.  All these are private revelations because it wasn't a hoard or a counsel that decided that these words came to so and so.  It came directly to each person privately.  In some cases a voice was heard by bystanders: Transfiguration, Baptism at the River Jordan, St.Paul road to Damascus and I'm sure many other situations in the past.

Like I've encouraged previously study carefully.

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

My first thoughts ran to the Franciscans, Benedictines, and Dominicans, all of whom have examples of both stronger and weaker groups.

Hang in there, Matty.

May the Holy Father appoint a strong shepherd for your flock. 

PTR!

Posted 11 months ago #

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Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge