In a recent discussion of an article I made a statement that the “prayers” being offered seemed to me to be “adversarial.” In particular, the prayers seemed specifically designed to provoke a response in the reader of the prayer rather than suggest a petition to God – or, if they were petitions, they were akin to “God, get rid of those who disagree with my side.”

This is not a discussion about the authors of those prayers, but one in which I want to solicit the opinions of the CERT as to whether prayers of this sort:

1. Represent some sort of abrogation of the Second Commandment, where one would seek to “make God is his own image.”
2. Are hurtful to the call to Charity
3. Are actually valid (and I should, therefore, apologize and shut up)

If you need me to explain further, I’ll try. I’m still trying to clarify all of my thoughts on the subject.

Loretta: Thanks. I know that I can be the same way. I do think that the prayer that was issued may have been as a result of anger or hurt...both emotions with which I can empathize. Might I have been too strong in pointing this out? I try to be charitably direct but sometimes, I think, I probably come off as terse or pedantic. My thinking is that this type of prayer, especially when made publicly, both diminishes Charity and "uses the Lord's Name in vain." I would really like your opinion, and those of others. In Chrst, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC

'if' "the will" is there is the question.

If the will to harm, hurt, do damage, then do not act on it.
Instead seek the way of peace, calm, this allows God to work
in your prayer request.  God is peaceful not hurtful by nature.

I've been contemplating and studying "Thought".

When I sit still and close my eyes and focus on some object I can hear
voices intruding.  Than one by one I shut them out until I identify "my" thoughts which is a 'voice'.  For we are not dead, but alive and a voice
is what determines if we are alive or dead.  A thought is actualy a series
of voices.  We can actually hear others thoughts if you know how to focus.  This is where all these other religions, spiritualists, necromancers, witch crafters get there influences from.  Voices.
Whose voice are you following?  God or Satan?

A thought is a sound in your body somewhere, whether it's near your head or near your chest.  This may seem like a new definition but it is not.  We just haven't looked at it this way.  But you try it and listen within.  What do you hear?  So if you hear then it is a voice.

Peace

Mreiner: I don’t think it necessary to read the article and replies to get the gist of what I am trying to say…I thing you clearly “got it.” You have a very interesting point, I think. The psalm calls for the destruction of “the wicked” or “the bloodthirsty” or “those.” This implies not necessarily a nation but individuals, grouped though they may be. In the article and prayer I reference, certain individuals were hailed as persons of integrity while of others it was said, “Not so…” The prayer at the end then requested of God, to my reading, to essentially get rid of those lacking “integrity” and provide us with those who possess it. My problem was that “integrity” appeared to be based on agreement with the author, absent any evidence that those in disagreement held a view demonstrating of a lack of “integrity.” (The contrary was, unfortunately, lacking enough information to be dispositive to the question of “integrity.") Some other “prayers” in the commentary following the article appeared to me to be in the same vein. The “harm,” as I see it, is not physical in nature but reputational. By praying in this manner, those against whom the “prayer” was offered were neither the beneficiaries of the petition, nor recipients of a curse for their (wicked) stance…rather, in my opinion, they were held up, publicly, as those who should be berated because of a position that, while disagreeing with the author’s, may or may not be wicked or lacking in “integrity.” In other words, it was not so much a prayer as an argumentative part of the article. Again, you have a strong point. I’m going to have to think about what you’re saying since it certainly appears scriptural to petition God for some “harm.” The phrase “Deceitfully they invoke your name,” is very much to my point. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC