Poorly handled by the Archbishop? What do you say?
in the book of Acts one Simon wanted to pay money for the gift of
the holy spirit. When Jesus healed the Pharisees' were skeptical, many folks got the "wrong idea".
Link: http://services.inquirer.net/print/print.php?article_id=116406
Archbishop bans Suarez’s healing sessions in Pangasinan
By Gabriel Cardinoza
Northern Luzon Bureau
Posted date: February 02, 2008
DAGUPAN CITY, Pangasinan -- Lingayen-Dagupan Archbishop Oscar Cruz on Saturday said he will stop Fr. Fernando Suarez, known in the country as the “healing priest,” the next time he visits Pangasinan and tries to conduct healing masses in his archdiocese.
Cruz, whose archdiocese covers 26 parishes in central Pangasinan, said too many questions hound Suarez’s “miraculous healing.”
Suarez was at the St. Therese Parish here on December 28 for a “very special day of prayer and healing.”
Cruz said that healing mass was held without his permission.
The Catholic Church’s Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith requires a local bishop’s permission for Church-related activities conducted by those who do not belong to the diocese. Suarez is a member of the Canada-based religious congregation called Companions of the Cross.
“There’s no problem that some people are gifted to cure as practically all saints have done this during their lives,” Cruz said.
But he said with Suarez’s popularity now, his healing masses are “open to abuses, like superstition, hysteria, fanaticism, and money.”
“There is already a question of hysteria, not to mention credulity [among the people],” Cruz said. “It is too much to say that Father Suarez resurrects the dead.”
Cruz said only Jesus Christ can raise people from the dead and “it’s not even all over.”
Jesus Christ, he said, brought to life only Lazarus and the son of a widow.
“Wala pang santo na bumuhay ng patay (No saint has ever brought back someone from the dead),” Cruz said.
“But the biggest question is the money. He is selling rosaries and other religious articles that have healing powers kuno (supposedly),” he said.
Cruz said even in Canada, the bishop of the diocese where Suarez belongs had banned Suarez from holding healing masses because of the sale of religious articles supposedly with healing powers.
He said solicitation letters have been also circulating for the construction of Suarez’s healing center in Batangas.
According to reports, the Mary Mother of the Poor Foundation, which Suarez heads, is building the Montemaria shrine in Batangas City. The centerpiece is the 33-story-high statue of Mary Mother of the Poor.
Cruz said Suarez is banned from holding healing masses in his archdiocese on a “case to case” basis. He said the ban is not an issue within the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of the Philippines.
He said Suarez could hold healing Masses freely in Metro Manila and Batangas because the bishops there allowed him to do so.
“They believe in him. And that’s okay,” he said.
Malolos (Bulacan) Bishop Jose Oliveros had earlier complained that Suarez’s healing activities were conducted without his permission.
But Cruz said he wished Suarez well.
“I hope he really cures -- and I want that very clear -- and cures as many [sick people] as possible, especially in this country where medicines, seeing a doctor, and hospitalization are very expensive,” he said.
Peace
Catholic Exchange Forums » Faith and Life
Healing Catholic Priest Banned from certain Archdoicese
(42 posts)
Posted 11 months ago #
Why should we think that the archbishop poorly handled the situation? I don't know anything about Fr. Suarez, but it seems that the archbishop has valid concerns about the manner in which the healing services are being handled.
In Christ,
Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
Well,
it's like this do you stiffle the Holy Spirit?
Peace
it's like this do you stiffle the Holy Spirit?
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
Healing priest welcome in Caloocan, says bishop
02/04/2008 | 11:50 AM
Unlike his counterparts in Pangasinan and Bulacan, Caloocan Bishop Deogracias Iñiguez Jr sees no problem with traveling healing priest Fernando Suarez visiting his turf.
In a dzBB report Monday morning, Iñiguez was quoted as saying that he is willing to receive Suarez should the healing priest decides to visit Caloocan City to hold his healing sessions.
Suarez was banned from Pangasinan and Bulacan after the bishops there found that he conducted healing sessions without their permission.
Bishops Oscar Cruz (Pangasinan) and Jose Oliveros (Bulacan) also questioned Suarez's sale of CDs and other religious items. - GMANews.TV
Peace
02/04/2008 | 11:50 AM
Unlike his counterparts in Pangasinan and Bulacan, Caloocan Bishop Deogracias Iñiguez Jr sees no problem with traveling healing priest Fernando Suarez visiting his turf.
In a dzBB report Monday morning, Iñiguez was quoted as saying that he is willing to receive Suarez should the healing priest decides to visit Caloocan City to hold his healing sessions.
Suarez was banned from Pangasinan and Bulacan after the bishops there found that he conducted healing sessions without their permission.
Bishops Oscar Cruz (Pangasinan) and Jose Oliveros (Bulacan) also questioned Suarez's sale of CDs and other religious items. - GMANews.TV
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
B:
The bishops have an obligation to protect their flock to the best of their ability. In doing so, they are not protected by infallibility. The bishops in Pangasinan and Bulacan may not be stiffling the Spirit but acting prudently; similarly, the Caloocan bishop may be making an error by allowing Fr. Suarez to conduct services in his diocese. While the reverse may also be true, I think we need to take a "wait and see" approach to the fruits of Fr. Suarez's ministry. The bishops did not indicate that memebers of their flock (or anyone) may not got to see him, only that he will not be allowed to work in their respective diocese for the reasons given.
In Christ,
Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
discernment is needed
Here's another article on this topic
http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/letterstotheeditor/view/20080205-116807/Berating-Fr-Suarez-was-uncalled-for
Berating Fr. Suarez was uncalled for
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 01:44:00 02/05/2008
Most Read
As Catholics, we do understand that it is only proper that religious activities involving Catholic priests, especially healing sessions, must have the approval of the bishop of the place, he being the head of the diocese. But I think it was not proper for Malolos Bishop Jose Oliveros to blame Fr. Fernando Suarez before the media, for all the world to see, that the latter’s healing session did not have the bishop’s imprimatur.
In the first place, I do believe that Father Suarez would not go to a certain parish to conduct a healing session if he were not invited by the parish priest of that place. I think Father Suarez and his group, when they go to a place for the purpose, assume that all requirements have been met by the parish priest concerned.
Before blaming Father Suarez, the beloved Bishop Oliveros should have done some investigation first and asked the concerned parish priest of his diocese. Then he would have had reason to reprimand those who have committed mistakes, if indeed there were any. And for the good of the Roman Catholic Church, he should not have told the media about it.
Telling the media that he is planning to write a formal complaint to the religious superiors of Father Suarez was, I think, unnecessary. Maybe he could have just invited Father Suarez to a dialogue which, I believe, the good father would have welcomed.
Father Suarez is a very simple, very humble person, and you can see in his being the image of Christ, healing the sick, raising the dead to life, in many parts of the world. Instead of making some negative statements against the poor priest, we should be proud that we in the Roman Catholic Church have somebody in the real image of Christ.
And also as Filipinos: We should be proud and happy that Father Suarez is a genuine Filipino, by his looks and by the way he speaks and moves. Even though he finished his priesthood in Canada and stayed there for a long time, you cannot see any foreign qualities in him. And the best thing that he did was to decide to stay here in the Philippines for good by putting up a healing center that will benefit all Filipinos.
All of us Catholics, and all Filipinos for that matter, should inspire Father Suarez to go on sharing the gift of healing he received from God through the power of the Holy Spirit. “Mabuhay ka,” Father Suarez! We love you.
Here's another article on this topic
http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/letterstotheeditor/view/20080205-116807/Berating-Fr-Suarez-was-uncalled-for
Berating Fr. Suarez was uncalled for
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 01:44:00 02/05/2008
Most Read
As Catholics, we do understand that it is only proper that religious activities involving Catholic priests, especially healing sessions, must have the approval of the bishop of the place, he being the head of the diocese. But I think it was not proper for Malolos Bishop Jose Oliveros to blame Fr. Fernando Suarez before the media, for all the world to see, that the latter’s healing session did not have the bishop’s imprimatur.
In the first place, I do believe that Father Suarez would not go to a certain parish to conduct a healing session if he were not invited by the parish priest of that place. I think Father Suarez and his group, when they go to a place for the purpose, assume that all requirements have been met by the parish priest concerned.
Before blaming Father Suarez, the beloved Bishop Oliveros should have done some investigation first and asked the concerned parish priest of his diocese. Then he would have had reason to reprimand those who have committed mistakes, if indeed there were any. And for the good of the Roman Catholic Church, he should not have told the media about it.
Telling the media that he is planning to write a formal complaint to the religious superiors of Father Suarez was, I think, unnecessary. Maybe he could have just invited Father Suarez to a dialogue which, I believe, the good father would have welcomed.
Father Suarez is a very simple, very humble person, and you can see in his being the image of Christ, healing the sick, raising the dead to life, in many parts of the world. Instead of making some negative statements against the poor priest, we should be proud that we in the Roman Catholic Church have somebody in the real image of Christ.
And also as Filipinos: We should be proud and happy that Father Suarez is a genuine Filipino, by his looks and by the way he speaks and moves. Even though he finished his priesthood in Canada and stayed there for a long time, you cannot see any foreign qualities in him. And the best thing that he did was to decide to stay here in the Philippines for good by putting up a healing center that will benefit all Filipinos.
All of us Catholics, and all Filipinos for that matter, should inspire Father Suarez to go on sharing the gift of healing he received from God through the power of the Holy Spirit. “Mabuhay ka,” Father Suarez! We love you.
Posted 11 months ago #
Bottomline is that you just have to trust in the Lord with all your heart.
The apostles went against the then reigning authorities the Sanhedrin.
Just because some goof wears cloth doent's mean that person is there for
God. Many wear cloth to escape and wear sheep's clothing.
Peace
The apostles went against the then reigning authorities the Sanhedrin.
Just because some goof wears cloth doent's mean that person is there for
God. Many wear cloth to escape and wear sheep's clothing.
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
Michaelme,
Here's the jist in short detail what most do not see nor understand.
Jesus called apostles- disciples to preach salvation, which has nothing to do with this world, "worlds systems, authorities and whatever else regarding worldly living conditions". It has everything to do with being saved so you can live with God forever in "His Kingdom" which is not of this "World". The part where most Christians balk is when met with "Worldly" authorities. They do not know what to really think, confusion one foot in and one foot out or all in or all out. We out of generosity for
them and hope that one day on the Day of Visitation they will recognize
what really is going on behind the scenes. If you took the veil off your eyes to see in the spiritual realm you would think twice about who's side
to be on. The illusionary to not overload our mental capacity, we would die on the spot.
The apostles finally said what the heck lets go preach Christ to save our fellow man. The opposition is the Devil using none other than men and women to keep the "kingdom" from advancing and saving their own skins from the deep roasting oven of hell. They use the current Authority systems which is run by none other than men and women who work for the Devil. Read the Temptation of Christ right after His baptism.
The Devil came to Christ and showed Christ the kingdoms in Satans grip,
"his strongholds"
Matthew 4:8
Again the devil took him up into a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them, Showed him, etc... That is, pointed out to him where each kingdom lay; and set forth in words what was most glorious and admirable in each of them. Or also set before his eyes, as it were in a large map, a lively representation of all those kingdoms. 9 And said to him: All these will I give thee, if falling down thou wilt adore me. 10 Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan: for it is written: The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve.
So in every instance we should serve God because this world is going bye bye forever! Nothing to it. It's all going to be ash! Those who oppose are not to be trifled over, move on to the next poor soul who maybe ready for conversion. The systems of this world are already judged. Satan is the owner of these systems, and he has already been judged.
Here's a play on words but very accurate. Democracy really means Demonocracy, a place or Satans synagoue. It grew from the Roman Empire, their system. Did you read what happened to Romans? They no longer exist at the moment in Rome but have transferred to the U.S.A. Ha, bet you never saw that coming did you? Read Revelations it has so much to tell you.
Anyway why did the apostles seem to be rebellious to the authorities of the Sanhedrin? The Sanhedrin is after all an authority setup by God but changed by men. or converted from God to Satan's kingdom and doctrines. There are only two doctrines truly present, but many forms
which come from these two. Which are they?
Doctrine of Christ
Doctrine of Satan
Peace
Here's the jist in short detail what most do not see nor understand.
Jesus called apostles- disciples to preach salvation, which has nothing to do with this world, "worlds systems, authorities and whatever else regarding worldly living conditions". It has everything to do with being saved so you can live with God forever in "His Kingdom" which is not of this "World". The part where most Christians balk is when met with "Worldly" authorities. They do not know what to really think, confusion one foot in and one foot out or all in or all out. We out of generosity for
them and hope that one day on the Day of Visitation they will recognize
what really is going on behind the scenes. If you took the veil off your eyes to see in the spiritual realm you would think twice about who's side
to be on. The illusionary to not overload our mental capacity, we would die on the spot.
The apostles finally said what the heck lets go preach Christ to save our fellow man. The opposition is the Devil using none other than men and women to keep the "kingdom" from advancing and saving their own skins from the deep roasting oven of hell. They use the current Authority systems which is run by none other than men and women who work for the Devil. Read the Temptation of Christ right after His baptism.
The Devil came to Christ and showed Christ the kingdoms in Satans grip,
"his strongholds"
Matthew 4:8
Again the devil took him up into a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them, Showed him, etc... That is, pointed out to him where each kingdom lay; and set forth in words what was most glorious and admirable in each of them. Or also set before his eyes, as it were in a large map, a lively representation of all those kingdoms. 9 And said to him: All these will I give thee, if falling down thou wilt adore me. 10 Then Jesus saith to him: Begone, Satan: for it is written: The Lord thy God shalt thou adore, and him only shalt thou serve.
So in every instance we should serve God because this world is going bye bye forever! Nothing to it. It's all going to be ash! Those who oppose are not to be trifled over, move on to the next poor soul who maybe ready for conversion. The systems of this world are already judged. Satan is the owner of these systems, and he has already been judged.
Here's a play on words but very accurate. Democracy really means Demonocracy, a place or Satans synagoue. It grew from the Roman Empire, their system. Did you read what happened to Romans? They no longer exist at the moment in Rome but have transferred to the U.S.A. Ha, bet you never saw that coming did you? Read Revelations it has so much to tell you.
Anyway why did the apostles seem to be rebellious to the authorities of the Sanhedrin? The Sanhedrin is after all an authority setup by God but changed by men. or converted from God to Satan's kingdom and doctrines. There are only two doctrines truly present, but many forms
which come from these two. Which are they?
Doctrine of Christ
Doctrine of Satan
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
I have watched news reports of Father Suarez on Philippine TV. he does have a large following. And from I gather form the news reports a great deal of what he is doing is without support from local bishops. I have seen priests and protestant clergy develop a large following in the Philippines as their so-called ability to heal provides a great deal of hope to a country that doesn't have health care available to a great deal of the population.
So I would say the Bishop is correct in wanting to ban him form conducting these healing masses. And if he was so successful in healing people don't you think the Vatican would be interested? has there been any verification of diseases or ailments cured during these masses?
As far as believing an article form the Philippine Inquirer, only with a grain of salt. That paper has definite communist tendencies and it has always been more than willing to report anything bad about the Church or an instance when a Catholic priest is doing good but is not performing in accordance with the local bishop.
Tarheel (Dave)
Posted 11 months ago #
I do find it suspicious that if a man is doing such good, he is also incapable of obedience - even if those he is in obedience to are wrong. To me, lack of obedience is a clear sign that something is not right.
Posted 11 months ago #
What about St. Peter? St. John, St. James? They were told by the Authority to stop preaching and healing. Did they obey human authority
gone wrong? Or did they obey Christ?
Here's something we do not see, St. Joan of Arc was given the blessing by the Church to fight. Later she was burned at the stake for supposed heresy.
This mix is always there, but is better to go forth believing in Christ than to sit on the fence and make presumptions doing nothing but being an armchair warrior. Surely the reward for doing good ignorantly far better that of presumptions.
We do not know if Fr Suarez is being directed by God because I have not exactly read his statement. But his silence speaks volumes in both directions. I discern from several facts, first this man has been accredited with healing, he carries charism with him, he is a priest in the Church who has been ordained by those in the Church. Many instances in the bible where gifts have been given to men to proclaim the Kingdom.
Here's is the highest calling which is above men and is a direct commandment from Christ to ALL Christians, Go ye into the word and proclaim the kingdom, for I am with you even when they disown you.
For greater things shall you do than these because I go to the Father.
When Christ calls you to proclaim His Doctrine you are doing the Kings
work. The news does splash and cause distortions. But if a man is healing people in the name of Christ, shame on them. If the man is sham shame on him. But we should not judge harshly, overbearingly, but make just judgement and say he is a man of God doing none other than the work of God. St. Francis of Assisi was called by Christ and he went about doing Gods work. Times are different now, the Church has been infiltrated by, Masons, Freemasons, groups like Illuminatis, Skull and Bones; many priests and clergy are secretly part of these groups.
So be careful and discern.
Are you healing in Christ's name? I'm not, but I am proclaiming Christ wherever I go. That's is what Christ and the Church have commanded.
Peace
gone wrong? Or did they obey Christ?
Here's something we do not see, St. Joan of Arc was given the blessing by the Church to fight. Later she was burned at the stake for supposed heresy.
This mix is always there, but is better to go forth believing in Christ than to sit on the fence and make presumptions doing nothing but being an armchair warrior. Surely the reward for doing good ignorantly far better that of presumptions.
We do not know if Fr Suarez is being directed by God because I have not exactly read his statement. But his silence speaks volumes in both directions. I discern from several facts, first this man has been accredited with healing, he carries charism with him, he is a priest in the Church who has been ordained by those in the Church. Many instances in the bible where gifts have been given to men to proclaim the Kingdom.
Here's is the highest calling which is above men and is a direct commandment from Christ to ALL Christians, Go ye into the word and proclaim the kingdom, for I am with you even when they disown you.
For greater things shall you do than these because I go to the Father.
When Christ calls you to proclaim His Doctrine you are doing the Kings
work. The news does splash and cause distortions. But if a man is healing people in the name of Christ, shame on them. If the man is sham shame on him. But we should not judge harshly, overbearingly, but make just judgement and say he is a man of God doing none other than the work of God. St. Francis of Assisi was called by Christ and he went about doing Gods work. Times are different now, the Church has been infiltrated by, Masons, Freemasons, groups like Illuminatis, Skull and Bones; many priests and clergy are secretly part of these groups.
So be careful and discern.
Are you healing in Christ's name? I'm not, but I am proclaiming Christ wherever I go. That's is what Christ and the Church have commanded.
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
i'm not talking about human authority.
Posted 11 months ago #
I agree with lpioch but as I read this this morning what "Authority" told St Peter, St John, and St James to stop?
As an added point to this priest in the Philippines. There was a Protestant pastor a few years that was proclaimed as a "healer". Does anyone hear of him now?
And I still think if this priest was in fact healing people the Vatican would be investigating and verifying these "miracles". I have noticed that you didn't compare this priest with Padre Pio. Didn't he choose to stay out of the "lime light"?
Tarheel (Dave)
Posted 11 months ago #
B:
The bishops who are denying Father the facility to preach / heal in their dioceses are also priests; priests “in the Church who [have] been ordained by those in the Church.” In fact, because of their anointing, they actually possess the “fullness” of the priesthood.
The comparison of Peter, et al. to Fr. Suarez is poor. Peter was not a part of their hierarchy – swore no vow of obedience to the temple authority. But the bishops, without positive proof to the contrary, are to be obeyed as Christ. St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote a number of times concerning our obedience to the bishops:
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
“Do nothing apart from the bishop,” to the Philadelphians (7:2); "You should all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ did the Father .... Nobody must do anything that has to do with the Church without the bishop's approval," to the Smyrnaeans (8:1); “…[O]bey the bishop as if he were Jesus Christ," to the Trallians (2:2,1).You seem to be saying that the bishops who are preventing Father Suarez from working in their sees are not doing as Christ commanded. Perhaps it is the other way around and the bishops that are allowing him are failing Christ and their flock. You are calling for discernment but you have no proof that these shepherds aren’t exercising discernment in forbidding Fr. Suarez. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
A priest whether he's a bishop a little higher on the scale of hierarchy are really all the same they come in Christ's name. The difference is their experience or whoever they had to bring them into higher seating.
St. Peter and the apostles walked with Christ for 3 yrs, and during those three years he had them go preaching, healing and proclaim the Gospel.
I wonder how many years Fr. Suarez has been preaching? Probably more than 3 years. In fact, if Fr. Suarez has been preaching for 10 years I'd say he has more experience than within the 3yrs that Christ allowed his apostles to go about town to town.
It's simple the proof is the Holy Spirit. No one can heal unless Christ is with them or God is with them. Do you deny the Holy Spirit? I also see where you are still tied some how a part of you understands the spirit and the other part (human training) understands the bishop.
The calling to Go ye into the world and proclaim the Gospel is the Highest calling and those who do it, will be met with resistence at any level inside the Church and outside. Christ came to heal the sick and feed the poor. Not those who are whole and rich.
like many here they do not truly have the Faith to listen to Christ's great commission. This is where the separation of faith really begins. Those who are stuck in human authority vs. those who Hear the Masters Voice. Faith says with God all things are possible. Do you think St. Peter who was put in jail several times cared about the authorities? He was listening to God and obeyed God. That is what we are all called to do. It may so happen that the bishop is not listening to God telling him to allow the Fr. Suarez to heal. Sometimes we have to get hit with large objects to wake up and see the light. Well, the poor bishop is not being blessed by the presence of Christ in Fr. Suarez. Without faith in God no one can heal. The man is probably part of one of the Ministry ordained by the Vatican to go about. Such as Fr. Corapi, and the Order he belongs to. They have been commissioned by the Pope.
Peace
St. Peter and the apostles walked with Christ for 3 yrs, and during those three years he had them go preaching, healing and proclaim the Gospel.
I wonder how many years Fr. Suarez has been preaching? Probably more than 3 years. In fact, if Fr. Suarez has been preaching for 10 years I'd say he has more experience than within the 3yrs that Christ allowed his apostles to go about town to town.
It's simple the proof is the Holy Spirit. No one can heal unless Christ is with them or God is with them. Do you deny the Holy Spirit? I also see where you are still tied some how a part of you understands the spirit and the other part (human training) understands the bishop.
The calling to Go ye into the world and proclaim the Gospel is the Highest calling and those who do it, will be met with resistence at any level inside the Church and outside. Christ came to heal the sick and feed the poor. Not those who are whole and rich.
like many here they do not truly have the Faith to listen to Christ's great commission. This is where the separation of faith really begins. Those who are stuck in human authority vs. those who Hear the Masters Voice. Faith says with God all things are possible. Do you think St. Peter who was put in jail several times cared about the authorities? He was listening to God and obeyed God. That is what we are all called to do. It may so happen that the bishop is not listening to God telling him to allow the Fr. Suarez to heal. Sometimes we have to get hit with large objects to wake up and see the light. Well, the poor bishop is not being blessed by the presence of Christ in Fr. Suarez. Without faith in God no one can heal. The man is probably part of one of the Ministry ordained by the Vatican to go about. Such as Fr. Corapi, and the Order he belongs to. They have been commissioned by the Pope.
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
B:
This quote from the article should have ended this thread. I think Loretta was pointing it out earlier in her post on obedience:
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Catholic Church’s Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith requires a local bishop’s permission for Church-related activities conducted by those who do not belong to the diocese. Suarez is a member of the Canada-based religious congregation called Companions of the Cross."This is not a matter of discernment for the bishops, it is a matter of obedience for Father, regardless of the ostensible power to heal. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
You are right, Michael. The bishop is the absolute ruler of his diocese. He and he alone decides who can preach in his diocese and who cannot; what can be read and what cannot; what can be taught and what cannot, etc. He answers to the Pope and only to the Pope.
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
Ah,
that's where the rubber meets the road. Blind eyes can only see skin deep.
Peace
that's where the rubber meets the road. Blind eyes can only see skin deep.
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
"Blind eyes can only see skin deep."
Reminds me of:
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Late one night in the middle of the day, Two dead boys got up to play, Back to back they faced one another, Then drew their swords and shot each other, One was blind and the other couldn't see So they chose a dummy for a referee. A blind man went to see fair play, A dumb man went to shout "hooray!" A paralysed donkey passing by, Kicked the blind man in the eye, Knocked him through a nine inch wall, Into a dry ditch and drowned them all, A deaf policeman heard the noise, And came to arrest the two dead boys, If you don't believe this story’s true, Ask the blind man he saw it too!You have yet to show that the bishops erred in their decision to keep Fr. Suarez from working in their dioceses. In Christ, Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
Show me the money is what you're saying.
6 But Peter said: Silver and gold I have none; but what I have, I give thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, arise and walk
Peace
6 But Peter said: Silver and gold I have none; but what I have, I give thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, arise and walk
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
"Be healed"
- Marjoe Gortner
In Christ,
Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
Go ye into all the world and declare that Christ is King.
Peace
Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
And what makes you think that the bishops in question are not doing just that - declaring Christ as King? You are essentially setting yourself up as judge over the bishops; deciding who may be right and who wrong solely on your opinion.
In Christ,
Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
B:
If St. Faustina was told by Jesus to obey her confessor and all those to whom she owed obedience in every detail, and if St. Pio was kept from his ministry as a test of obedience in order to confirm its divine nature, why should Fr. Suarez not be held to the same standard.
In addition, why would he allow anyone associated with him to sell objects with purported healing properties? This last, in itself, is highly irregular don't you think?
In Christ,
Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 11 months ago #
St. Paul made tents to earn his way. He also said he who does not work does not eat. Today we don't go around making tents. The world is into Commodities, We do not have our own Farms where we can raise our own Food. We do not have our own clothes making tools, We rely on others. So what we do is cut short. Another words The System has taken over our lives. This is called "The Beast" We gave up our own way of living to "IT".
God created the Garden to Be Tended By Man and gave dominion over the Natural Earth for man to live accordingly in Good Will. The human fleshly part of man is fed off the earth.
The Beast dictates to man what and how to live. If you haven't figured that out yet, study indepth Genesis over and over until it sinks in. Then you will understand Gods true design for creation and how the Devil usurped God and Mans true lifestyle.
Peace
God created the Garden to Be Tended By Man and gave dominion over the Natural Earth for man to live accordingly in Good Will. The human fleshly part of man is fed off the earth.
The Beast dictates to man what and how to live. If you haven't figured that out yet, study indepth Genesis over and over until it sinks in. Then you will understand Gods true design for creation and how the Devil usurped God and Mans true lifestyle.
Peace
Posted 10 months ago #
slow posting today.
Posted 10 months ago #
One other thing we haven't noticed is the priests track record.
If his Bishop doesn't agree with his practices then he wouldn't be
doing what he is doing. So this is an issue with Bishops not the priest.
The priest is doing what he was commanded.
As it stands, we can see when we send someone in Christ's name who's listening and seeing and who isn't. So the deeper truths haven't yet
been opened in you. The Deeper truth is to be obedient to the Spirit.
If the Spirit says don't go! You don't go. If the person-- in this case an Archbishop has doubts and second guesses that's his problem. He's not ready.
This is how we know: Read this carefully
1 COR 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among the perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, neither of the princes of this world that come to nought. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, a wisdom which is hidden, which God ordained before the world, unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew. For if they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard: neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But to us God hath revealed them by his Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, but the spirit of a man that is in him? So the things also that are of God, no man knoweth, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now, we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God: that we may know the things that are given us from God. 13 Which things also we speak: not in the learned words of human wisdom, but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God. For it is foolishness to him: and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
Commentary:The sensual man — the spiritual man... The sensual man is either he who is taken up with sensual pleasures, with carnal and worldly affections; or he who measureth divine mysteries by natural reason, sense, and human wisdom only. Now such a man has little or no notion of the things of God. Whereas the spiritual man is he who, in the mysteries of religion, takes not human sense for his guide: but submits his judgment to the decisions of the church, which he is commanded to hear and obey. For Christ hath promised to remain to the end of the world with his church, and to direct her in all things by the Spirit of truth.
This last verse takes precedence of those Who are Sent in Christ's Name:
15 But the spiritual man judgeth all things: and he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
These are the words of St. Paul an Apostle who is next to Christ in Heaven.
I see an apostate situtation within Church hiearchy and have to test each person carefully discerning with the Spirit. I myself judge no man but He Who judges according to the Hearts, thoughts in them.
Peace
If his Bishop doesn't agree with his practices then he wouldn't be
doing what he is doing. So this is an issue with Bishops not the priest.
The priest is doing what he was commanded.
As it stands, we can see when we send someone in Christ's name who's listening and seeing and who isn't. So the deeper truths haven't yet
been opened in you. The Deeper truth is to be obedient to the Spirit.
If the Spirit says don't go! You don't go. If the person-- in this case an Archbishop has doubts and second guesses that's his problem. He's not ready.
This is how we know: Read this carefully
1 COR 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among the perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, neither of the princes of this world that come to nought. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, a wisdom which is hidden, which God ordained before the world, unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew. For if they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But, as it is written: That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard: neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But to us God hath revealed them by his Spirit. For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, but the spirit of a man that is in him? So the things also that are of God, no man knoweth, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now, we have received not the spirit of this world, but the Spirit that is of God: that we may know the things that are given us from God. 13 Which things also we speak: not in the learned words of human wisdom, but in the doctrine of the Spirit, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the sensual man perceiveth not these things that are of the Spirit of God. For it is foolishness to him: and he cannot understand, because it is spiritually examined.
Commentary:The sensual man — the spiritual man... The sensual man is either he who is taken up with sensual pleasures, with carnal and worldly affections; or he who measureth divine mysteries by natural reason, sense, and human wisdom only. Now such a man has little or no notion of the things of God. Whereas the spiritual man is he who, in the mysteries of religion, takes not human sense for his guide: but submits his judgment to the decisions of the church, which he is commanded to hear and obey. For Christ hath promised to remain to the end of the world with his church, and to direct her in all things by the Spirit of truth.
This last verse takes precedence of those Who are Sent in Christ's Name:
15 But the spiritual man judgeth all things: and he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
These are the words of St. Paul an Apostle who is next to Christ in Heaven.
I see an apostate situtation within Church hiearchy and have to test each person carefully discerning with the Spirit. I myself judge no man but He Who judges according to the Hearts, thoughts in them.
Peace
Posted 10 months ago #
St. Paul himself gave out handerchiefs and items because they were part of his virtue which healed. Book of Acts. Many saints also possessed such virtue afterwards.
Jesus: a woman touched his garment, she said if I could only touch, and she was healed. what is the connection? Faith, One must believe in God.
No faith -- no belief.
Faith in God moves mountains as Christ said if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can say to this mountain be thou removed into the sea.
Christ cursed the fig tree because it had no figs. It withered. Have to read these little details. Because God is in the tinyest details. Mustard Seed Size Details. God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise of this world. Simple. Because Satan puffs up people to admire their knowledge-- Pride. God on the other hand does not puff people up.
He humbles them. That is the hidden mystery in "God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise" Humiliation.
God waits for the calm to come. Satan brings purterbation, Choas, anxiety. Why does God wait for the calm? To be of crystal clear minds.
A calm lake soothes, and can see the reflections without wrinkle.
Saints to do not raise the dead? What garbage! Who's Bible is this guy reading? How many Apostles are saints? Did Christ not send them out to in His power? Of course he did: Holy Rosary Luminous Mysteries -- Proclaim the Kingdom -- Preach as you go, saying that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, raise the dead, heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. You received freely, give freely.
Some verses to refresh burnt minds:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils. They shall speak with new tongues. 18 They shall take up serpents: and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay their hand upon the sick: and they shall recover.
John 14:12 Otherwise believe for the very works' sake. Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do.
What are these scorpions, vipers, snakes doing wearing Cloth posing as Priests, Clergy?
Peace
Jesus: a woman touched his garment, she said if I could only touch, and she was healed. what is the connection? Faith, One must believe in God.
No faith -- no belief.
Faith in God moves mountains as Christ said if you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can say to this mountain be thou removed into the sea.
Christ cursed the fig tree because it had no figs. It withered. Have to read these little details. Because God is in the tinyest details. Mustard Seed Size Details. God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise of this world. Simple. Because Satan puffs up people to admire their knowledge-- Pride. God on the other hand does not puff people up.
He humbles them. That is the hidden mystery in "God uses the foolish things of this world to confound the wise" Humiliation.
God waits for the calm to come. Satan brings purterbation, Choas, anxiety. Why does God wait for the calm? To be of crystal clear minds.
A calm lake soothes, and can see the reflections without wrinkle.
Saints to do not raise the dead? What garbage! Who's Bible is this guy reading? How many Apostles are saints? Did Christ not send them out to in His power? Of course he did: Holy Rosary Luminous Mysteries -- Proclaim the Kingdom -- Preach as you go, saying that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, raise the dead, heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons. You received freely, give freely.
Some verses to refresh burnt minds:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall he condemned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name they shall cast out devils. They shall speak with new tongues. 18 They shall take up serpents: and if they shall drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them. They shall lay their hand upon the sick: and they shall recover.
John 14:12 Otherwise believe for the very works' sake. Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do.
What are these scorpions, vipers, snakes doing wearing Cloth posing as Priests, Clergy?
Peace
Posted 10 months ago #
Bhokuto:
I’m not questioning whether healing can be done, or even if Fr. Suarez is performing healings. It is actually that you are placing yourself in a position to judge these bishops based on nothing more concrete than your own opinion that I question.
You believe that these men have acted unjustly; I believe that these are trying to act in the best interest of their flock. They may change their mind about Father or they may not, but it seems uncharitable of you to judge their actions without access to their private thoughts. They are men; they should be allowed some mistakes without the attribution of evil intent to their actions. These bishops ordain the priests who bring their flock the Body and Blood of Christ; they themselves bring us Christ in the Eucharist; they bless the Holy Oils used to consecrate churches, baptize, and confirm the faithful.
Unless you have evidence that these bishops are acting in bad faith, you should probably not be calling them “scorpions, vipers, snakes” or making the insinuation that they are “posing as Priests, Clergy.”
We should be vigilant against anyone trying to teach error, including our bishops, but they have not done this. What they have done is well within their rights as the ruler of their respective sees.
Perhaps next time, Father will remember his vow to Christ of obedience and ask the bishop for permission as he should have in the first place.
In Christ,
Michael
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried"
- GK Chesterton "The poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - also GKC
Posted 10 months ago #
bhokuto, Christ built the Catholic church on the rock of Peter because God knows the human need for authoritative leadership for the preservation of authentic faith. The priest in question may very well act in the name of the Holy Spirit however the Holy Spirit will never lead any person to defiance toward legitimate authority. In fact one of the observations made in the case of canonization of Saints is obedience to legitimate authority. All the Priest needs to do is get permission from the Bishop in all cases no matter what parish he is visiting. The fact that one Bishop approves and another does not is insignificant when considering a faithful Priests defiance toward his Bishop. As it is written in the OT Scriptures, Is it my ways that are unjust or is it your ways that are unjust my people of Israel? For when a wicked man turns toward righteousness, his sins are forgotten, however when a just man turns toward wickedness, then all his good deeds are forgotten.
This Priest's good deeds are all forgotten when he defies the approval of his Bishop, even if his deeds are approved elsewhere.
Whose way is fair bhokuto?
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
Posted 10 months ago #
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