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The Church encourages to Read Up on the Saints Here's few to mention

(24 posts)
  • Started 11 months ago by bhokuto
  • Latest reply from bhokuto

bhokuto - Member
I always find it a bit strange when the priest says to read up on the saints.  So I thought well the saints in the scriptures have alot to say.

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John

Acts:  All the saints in it.

Romans: St. Paul
1 Corinthians: St. Paul
2 Corinthians: St. Paul
Galatians: St. Paul
Ephesians: St. Paul
Philippians: St. Paul
Colossians: St. Paul
1 Thessalon: St. Paul
2 Thessalon: St. Paul
1 Timothy: St. Paul
2 Timothy: St. Paul
 
James:  St. James brother of St. John
1 Peter:  St. Peter
2 Peter
1 John: St. John the beloved
2 John
3 John
Jude: St. Judas Thaddeus

Revelation:  St. John the Beloved

Jewish saints
Isaiah
Jeremiah  
Baruch
Ezekiel
Daniel
Hosea
Joel
Amos
Obadiah
Jonah
Micah
Nahum
Habakkuk
Zephaniah
Haggai
Zechariah
Malachi


Peace


Posted 11 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

B

You wrote:

James:  St. James brother of St. John

Are you suggesting that James the brother of John wrote the Letter of James? If so I would question this opinion.

Most consider thsat James called the Brother of the Lord, who became the leader of the Christians in Jerusalem, was more likely the author.


God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Ah,

I guess you failed to read where Christ is the only offspring of Mary.
And Mary only had One Child.  Jesus has no natural brothers, just cousins.  James and Judas of Alphaeus.  Consequently James and Judas
had other brothers three as far as I have been told.  Family of 5 brothers who are all cousins of Jesus.  They called each other brother.

Funny, you should study carefully.

James and John of Zebedee, remember?  brothers of Thunder

Also, Judas or St. Jude-- Judas Thaddeus changed his name to Jude after Judas Iscariot betrayed the Lord,-- for a good reason.

Peace


Posted 11 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator
I believe that's why Noel quoted the words "brother of the Lord".  In the original language, "brother" includes relatives such as cousins.  He made no statement insisting James is the blood-brother of Jesus.  He only quoted.
Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
thanks but you only answered his second part.

the first part:  Are you suggesting that James the brother of John wrote the Letter of James? If so I would question this opinion.

and then the second part: he said, the Lords Brother. Jesus had, has no natural brothers.  Just cousins.  But we are all brothers in Christ.

Peace



Posted 11 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

B

Thank you for your reply to me.

You might like to look at the Anchor Bible Dictionary (David Noel Freedman, The Anchor Bible Dictionary, 3:616 (New York: Doubleday, 1996, c1992)).

Three persons bearing the name James are relatively familiar to us from the NT. Fully half of the occurrences refer unquestionably to James the son of Zebedee, one of the twelve disciples chosen by Jesus. Next most frequently referred to, in about a quarter of the occurrences, is James the brother of Jesus, who was to assume the leadership of the early Jerusalem church.   A second disciple named James is mentioned in all four lists of the Twelve, being specified as the son of Alphaeus.   

Incidentally I am surprised you did not refer to St Timothy in Paul’s Letters.  

Please see again the ABD

TIMOTHY (PERSON) [Timotheos (????????)]. A missionary associate, fellow worker, and trusted emissary of Paul over an extended period of time. Timothy is mentioned after Paul in the prescript of various Pauline letters as a cosender of those letters,  Thess 1:1; 2 Cor 1:1; Phil 1:1; Philemon 1; cf. also 2 Thess 1:1; Col 1:1). He is variously identified as “our brother” (1 Thess 3:2; 2 Cor 1:1; Philemon 1), as “fellow worker” (1 Thess 3:2; Rom 16:21), and as Paul’s “beloved and faithful child in the Lord” (1 Cor 4:17; cf. 1 Tim 1:2) who enjoys a special relationship with this apostle (Phil 2:20–22; cf. 1 Tim 1:2, 18; 2 Tim 1:2; 2:1). Many interpreters also see the phrase “apostles of Christ” (1 Thess 2:6) as including Timothy along with Paul (and Silas).

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________
Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Thanks noel,

Oh, well that's a given I just put down a few not all.  I think

I really suggest you read "Poem" the life of Jesus, his cousins and more just incredible.  All their names are in it.  

Poem is like one consolidated book,  To find out all that's in this book would take more than 2000 years of reading one by one different faithful whom Jesus reveals to.  In 5 volumes you learn about all the names and faces Jesus had contact with from birth to resurrection.

the 12 shepherds that came to Jesus' birth at the grotto, they are His first disciples.  Not apostles, disciples, they went about proclaiming the birth of Christ and were beaten, scourged and ridiculed.  Remember Herod tried to have Christ killed as an infant, all those infants 2 yrs and younger who were killed are with God because they were in away martyred to protect the Christ from being killed (cover).  All those poor mothers who lost their babies to the murderous man are now joyful because God accounted their sacrifices and gave them eternal life. Amen.  God is Mercy and Compassion. Amen.

Then there were 3 Magi who came to Christ 8 months after His birth to bring gifts to the poor family of St. Joseph and the Virgin Mary.  Which they used to go to Egypt.  Flight into Egypt to hide from Herod the monarch.  The pontiff of that time was.... have to look it up.  It's incredible how God provides.  When we do the work of God He truly provides.  Trust in God always and never become disturbed, distracted and do His will and He will always provide for holy work.  If the work is selfish dead end.  No provision.

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

B

You wrote:

I really suggest you read "Poem" the life of Jesus, his cousins and more just incredible.

Are we back to discussing this topic again?

I suggest you might like to read http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/VALTORTA.TXT.

I quote from it:

IS "THE POEM OF THE MAN-GOD" SIMPLY A BAD NOVEL?

Maria Valtorta's multi-volume life of Jesus flirts with heresy and
exhibits bad taste. Its claim to authenticity have been rejected by Rome.

by Father Mitch Pacwa, S.J.

"The Poem of the Man-God" is a five-volume "narrative" of the life of
Jesus written in the 1940s by a sickly Italian woman named Maria Valtorta.
"Poem" purports to fill in the details of Jesus' life left blank by the
four Gospels. Such narratives have been produced since the second century
A.D. Some were written by gnostic heretics... 
 .

"The Poem of the Man-God" is in this tradition of apocryphal literature on New Testament themes. Valtorta claimed that she was the "secretary" of Jesus and Mary, and was setting down the divinely inspired truth about Jesus' life. The Church has rejected this claim. Nevertheless, "Poem" has  become quite popular, particularly among Catholics as well....
 
  In fact, "Poem" was included on the Index of Forbidden books until the abolition of the Index in the 1960s. No less an authority than Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, reiterates the Church's rejection of the claims made for "The  Poem of the Man-God."



NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Noel

You posted things that have no credibility, it's man's decree.
Look around you and think of the times we live in.
Discern the times, places, and what people say.

Listen to the Spirit.  That's how saints became saints.  They listened to the Spirit.  If you listen to the Spirit, you obey God and anything man puts in front of you is a test from God to see how you deal with it.  The test is to obey God in all things.  Man becomes an object of tests in a manner of speaking.  One thing common to saints, they Trusted in God because they realized Life begins and ends with God. Without God you would not be born,  Without God you would have no bread and clothing, Without God well you figure it out.  Who do you trust?  With God all things are possible, because with man it is impossible.

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

I also trust my brothers and sisters that God gave to me in my family.

Catholicism is a familial faith.  I am a child of God.  So are all my brothers and sisters.  In families, good older brothers and sisters help the younger brothers and sisters to listen to and obey their Father.  That's why God gave me siblings.  Although they are human, too...God speaks to me and directs me through them.  Don't ask me why He didn't set it up as a 1-on-1 alone faith.  But we know He didn't.  ONe of those things we will more fully understand in Heaven. 

The me-and-God alone faith is not a Catholic faith. 

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
It also how well along you are in your faith how much you have grown in your spirit in relation to maturity.  There are no limits to your spirit to grow and abound.

but on the other hand this is a mouthful below discern and take in spiritual food.

If God created them, it means that they serve. Nothing in creation is useless or entirely harmful. Evil only is clearly and solely noxious and woe to those who allow it to bite them. One of the effects of its bite is the inability to tell Good from Evil, then there is the deviation of reason and of conscience led astray towards evil things, and then spiritual
blindness, because of which, Judas of Simon, one does not see the power of God shine on things, even when they are tiny. And His power is written on this flower, through its beauty and scent, and its shape, which is so different from any other flower, and through
this drop of dew which trembles and glitters suspended on the waxen edge of the tiny petal and seems a tear of gratitude to the Creator, Who made everything well, useful and varied. But it is written that everything was beautiful for the first parents, until their eyes
became opaque with sin…. And everything spoke to them of God until the fluid, which distorted their capacity for seeing God, was instilled into things, or rather, into their eyes.  Even nowadays, the more the spirit is sovereign in a human creature, the more God reveals Himself.

Peace


Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Noel,

Father Mitch is not my Parish Priest.  So that posting is useless.

My parish priest believes in Poem to be Divine.  So there have fun with
your EWTN useless posts.

I could paste tons of imprimaturs from other Bishops but that wouldn't convince
you because you.  Your loss.  If you read Book 1 you would be crying for days.
And say God how come your are so Loving?  So much Mercy, We are beggars
and do not deserve your Mercy or your Love.  But than again you can't comprehend
this because a saint is beyond your comprehension. They do not think like ordinary
men and women.  They are beyond this realm.


Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
FYI:

Here's what a Bishop has to say and makes clear all these "words" which are not looked at properly.

A letter and answer from a listener asking about the writings:

Maria Valtorta
Question to EWTN from D. Maanum on 02-05-2002:
Please advise what is the status of Maria Valtorta's private meditations? I heard they were once on the list of condemned books, but that was lifted. Can a Catholic read them for inspiration and what are the Churches rules on private meditations? Thank you.
Answer by EWTN's Bill Bilton on 02-05-2002:
The works of Maria Valtorta have been condemned by the Church after a careful and serious investigation and study that found their contents to be harmful to faithful Catholics. On December 16, 1959, the Congregation of the Holy Office ordered the 4-volume work entitled "The Poem of the Man-God" placed on the Index of Forbidden Books. Pope John XXIII approved the decree and directed that the condemnation be published. The decree was then promulgated by the Holy Office on January 5, 1960. The Vatican's newspaper "L'Osservatore Romano", on the following day, published an article summarizing the investigations of the cardinals of the Holy Office who were responsible for protecting the faithful in matters of faith and morals. It should be noted that none of Maria Valtorta's works have been approved by the Church.

On June 14, 1966, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith abrogated the Index of Forbidden Books. Although the Index was abolished in 1966, the censure and prohibition of books already on the Index still retain their validity as to the moral law which totally forbids the dilution of faith and morals.

The publishers who have re-printed Maria Valtorta's works have been deceiving the Catholic faithful in printing and distributing these condemned works to a devout, but unsuspecting Catholic faithful. They have done so despite the efforts of the highest Church authorities to warn the faithful that the moral authority represented by the condemnation on the Index of Forbidden Books remains even today, and that the works of Maria Valtorta should be avoided by sincere and conscientious Catholics.

We would like to sincerely urge you to consider the fact that the works of Maria Valtorta have been condemned by the Church as unreliable and spiritually harmful accounts of the life of Jesus and His Mother. Catholics wanting to know more about both should spend their time reading the Gospels or a good life of Christ.


A Bishop of Rome, Italy's answer to the above:

The Editorial Board
EWTN
Birmingham, Alabama

To Whom It May Concern:

Your column Questions and Answers was recently brought to my attention; specifically your response to a question from your listeners and readers concerning the writings of Maria Valtorta.

I don’t know who Mr. Bill Bilton is, or his relationship to EWTN, but I wish to advise you that his answer to your listener is a splotch and a blotch on the good name and authority which EWTN rightly enjoy among Catholic listeners, not to mention the failure to investigate the status of the question.

As I read his answer my blood boiled at this arrogating to oneself the authority that belongs only to the magisterium of the church.

It is true that the first edition of the Poem of the Man God was placed on the index of the Roman Catholic Church. This index was scrapped by the authority of Pope Paul VI in 1965. As the authoritative explanation of the accompanying document of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith explains, the old index may retain the moral, but not canonical, authority as a guide to Catholic readers. The documents of 1965/6 acknowledge that not every work that had been placed on the index was necessarily against morals and faith.

The repetition of the notions of the earlier censors and maligners of Maria Valtorta reveals that whoever continues to invoke this index is not aware of the response of Cardinal Ratzinger to the bishop of Birmingham, Alabama in 1993; and of the statements of the Conference of Italian Bishops over the past several years. These acknowledge that there is nothing against faith or morals in the Poem of the Man God and the other writings of Maria Valtorta. They further acknowledge the current legislation of the Catholic Church in the Code of Canon law, that no longer require the nihil obstat of ecclesiastical authorities for writings purporting to alleged messages or revelations (CIC cann. 823-4, 830, 832)

To continue the scurrilous witch-hunt against Maria Valtorta and her writings reminds me of the theologians and canonists who burned Saint Joan of Arc at the stake, of those who excommunicated Saint Thomas Aquinas, of the detractors of Blessed Padre Pio. It reminds me of the high council or synedrion [Sanhedrin] of the Jews who condemned Christ. Unfortunately one of the failings of the offices of the Church is the fact that these offices do not make formal retractions of their own accusations when it has been brought to their attention that they have made mistakes. This is a common failing of bishops and pastors and of many in authority.

This is what happened with Maria Valtorta. The Osservatore Romano was made aware of the falsity of the innuendos of writers maligning Maria Valtorta in their articles, published in the Osservatore in 1961. They were informed by the Servite fathers who had presented the volume of the Poem of the Man God to Pope Pius XII. Pope Pius XII commended her writings: "Publish them as they are, taking nothing away, nor adding to them. Who will understand, will understand." The Osservatore stopped printing negative comments. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of others.

Fortunately there is another remedy in the Catholic Church. The Popes have raised Saint Joan of Arc, Saint Thomas Aquinas, Blessed Padre Pio to the altars of the Church. The Eternal Father raised His Son from the dead and seated Him at His right hand. Hopefully some day the Church will recognise the sanctity of this chosen victim soul.

Although the first Italian edition of the Poem of the Man God did not carry a nihil obstat, and this is the reason why the Poem of the Man God was placed on the index, several bishops have subsequently given their nihil obstat and imprimatur to the writings of Maria Valtorta over the past years. Her writings have been translated into French, English, Portuguese, Spanish, Polish, Ukrainian, Malayalam and other languages. Several bishops, including myself, have given their imprimatur to these translations so that Catholic readers may not hesitate to take these writings into their hands They are truly a gift from Our Lord. I wish to refer Mr. Bilton to what I have written. I have included several of my articles in defense of Maria Valtorta in my website at www.heartofjesus.ca. I especially commend the masterly website, and the extensive research of a Catholic monk, who has collected many articles and papers of various authors and included them in his website. Cf. http://www.bardstown.com/~brchrys/index.html

The present editor and publisher of the works of Maria Valtorta, Dr. Emilio Pisani, has compiled the arguments of various writers pro and contra of the writings of Maria Valtorta in a new book. In a cursory glance at the Google listings on the Internet, you will find more than 200 websites dedicated to the writings of Maria Valtorta, in a variety of languages.

You owe a retraction to your reader(s)

Respectfully yours in Christ and the Blessed Mother,

+ Roman Danylak

Bishop Roman Danylak

Titular Bishop of Nyssa

Parish of Saints Sergius and Bacchus

00184 Roma. Italy


Now wouldn't you say that a Bishop in Rome has more authority than
Fr. Mitch of tiny EWTN?

Peace




Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Here's what a Fr. has to say:

THE INCREDIBLY RANDOM COMPOSITION OF THE POEM :
— A Challenge to Authors —


Fr. Jorge Fuentes—Mexican Salesian priest

<>
[This article is an offering from Fr. Jorge Fuentes, describing the extraordinary random sequence in which Maria Valtorta received her visions and dictations for The Poem of the Man-God.]


Dear readers, allow me to begin this article with the following question: is there some prestigious writer willing to compose a novel of literary value - of some 250 pages, in 30 chapters - under three conditions: of not being able to map out a sketch or outline before writing it; of not being able to correct any of the written words (apart from typographical errors), and of completing it within a certain time frame.

Let us be optimistic, and let us suppose that such a writer exists, who is interested in the challenge, and who accepts it in exchange for a juicy prize.

Now imagine further, that we surprise the writer with the offer of tripling the promised prize, provided he agrees to a further condition: that he/she writes the 30 chapters of this novel in the following order: first chapter 7, then chapter 25, then chapters 19, 5, 14, 12 and 15, and then the remaining chapters in this order: 6, 26, 18, 12, 2, 30, 17, 23, 4, 21; and 24, 16, 1,13, 9; and 11, 20, 3, 8, 10. 29, 28, 22, 27, so that when finished, there would be a beautiful, coherent and convincing novel. Do you believe that this challenge would be accepted? I dare to think that he/she would say something like this: “no writer will ever be able to successfully produce a readable novel with this new condition, which world be contrary to any human logic”.

Well, dear readers, although it seems incredible, there was already somebody who achieved such a feat! It was a female Italian writer, single, Catholic, who spent the last 27 years of her life, unable to get out of a sick-bed, until the day of her death at age 64 in October 1961. This simple woman recorded visions and dictations received of the lives of Jesus and Mary, in some 90 notebooks - sitting up with her knees bent. The 11,000 pages of her monumental Work took from December 1943 to April 1947. She didn't have at hand any bibliography - other than the Sacred Bible and the Catechism of Saint Pius X. And the marvellous thing was that she completed this without correcting any written word, and without any preparatory outline. Of such a feat there were numerous first-hand witnesses, including her Spiritual Director Father P. Romualdo Migliorini - of the Order of María's Servants – and Marta Diciotti, her live-in companion until the day of her death. Also the original notebooks themselves can be checked, to verify that there aren’t any corrections at all – acting as mute witnesses to this feat.) And the most surprising aspect of all was that this monumental Work doesn't only consist of 30, but 652 chapters!!

Here is the beginning segment of the “lawless” order in which the chapters of this great Work were actually written (some small groups of chapters were written consecutively): 647, 52, 235, 36, 41(first part.), 185, 32, 45, 42, 44, 599 (part.) to 600 (part.), 597, 606 (part.), 609, 612 (part.), 614, 616, 633, 41(part.), 46 to 47, etc., etc. I ask readers this question: who would write chapter 647 first, then chapter 52, then 235, etc., in a literary work? Does this seem madness? However, it was not. Let us see how it happened.

Those chapters were written - in these 90 or so notebooks - without having any assigned number. That is to say, the writer didn't know what chapter number she was writing. The only thing that she added was the date in which each chapter was written. So as the Work was progressing, and she wanted to have them put in a coherent order, it was seen necessary have them typed by Fr. Migliorini in loose leaves, so as not to have to pull out the leaves of the notebooks. Those loose leaves were put together in the order indicated by the Lord, and totalling 652 chapters. And once in order, everyone – even the writer – got to know the real order in which these chapters were really written in the notebooks (see part of that list above) This was, in fact, the true Author's purpose: to surrender this wonderful Work, in such a form - evident for all - that nobody but He could have planned it and written it in that total disorder.

How were the chapters ordered? By a series of simple notes dictated by the Author, such as that which followed the chapter describing of the Crucifixion:

« And now, » says Jesus, « pay attention. I spare you the description of the burial, which was well described last year: on 19th February 1944. So you will use that one, and [Fr. Migliorini} at the end of it will put Mary's lamentation, which I gave on 4th October 1944. Then you will put the new visions you see. They are new parts of the Passion and are to be put very carefully in their places to avoid confusion and gaps. »

This Work, originally in Italian, was written by a great mystic of our time, María Valtorta, whose writings have been eulogized by experts in many disciplines: geographical, geological, archaeological, ethnological, botanical, zoological (all in relation to the Palestine of Jesus' time), besides experts in history, psychology and theology (mentioning the most outstanding). Written with a lucid, vigorous and attractive language, with an interesting captive simplicity for the readers, it has been published by Central Editoriale Valtortiano in 10 volumes.

The first Italian edition is dated 1956–59, and the third and definitive edition, entitled; “The Gospel as it has been Revealed to Me”, is dated 2001. It has been translated and published - starting from the year 1971 - in eight other languages: Spanish, English, French, German, Portuguese, Dutch-flamenco, Korean and Croatian. It is also being published - cumulatively - in seven other languages: Slovakian, Malayan, Japanese, Hungarian, Tamil, Suahili and Russian. And soon, the first volume of this collection will appear in Polish, Chinese, Arabic, Lithuanian and Albanian.

The English translation of the Work was given the name The Poem of the Man-God. It consists of five volumes containing more that 4,000 pages.

In this Work there are hundreds of characters, highlighting those that appear in the gospels, all wrapped within the wonderful plot of Jesus' life. The beauty, depth and astonishing harmony with the Gospels, is in full agreement with the Doctrines of the Church, making it a Work worthy of being well known and diffused for the people of God, and strongly inducing the reader to discover their divine origin. In fact, the writer repeatedly affirmed that she was only the “spokesman”, the instrument through which the “Author” wanted to share with us His life, in order to be able to deepen, over time, the knowledge of both the Person and the Word, contained in the four Gospels.

This Work has received Pope Pius XII’s verbal recommendation for publication, given in a private audience to three Servite priests – Fr. Romualdo M. Migliorini, Fr. Corrado M. Berti, and Fr. Andrea M. Cecchin – on 26th February 1948. It has been, in the life of countless people, a decisive factor on their way to conversion to God. Like a tree, it is known more for its fruits, than for the depth of its roots. The official bulletin of its publishers has given countless testimonies of benefits from this Work. Among these, there have been cardinals and many bishops – at least two of whom have granted “Imprimaturs”, through which the Work is declared free from error in faith and the morals.

There have also been renowned theologians and biblical scholars who have left valuable written testimonies, for this exceptional woman's writings. I mention five of these by way of example: 1) Cardinal Agostino Bea, S.J., who was Rector of the Biblical Institute of Rome and confessor of the Pope Pius XII; 2) Mons. Alfonso Carinci who was Secretary of the Sacred Congregation of Rites; 3) Mons. Ugo Lattanzi, professor of the Papal University Lateranense of Rome; 4) Fr. Gabriele María Roschini, O.S.M., Doctor in Philosophy and founder of the theological Ability “Marianum” of Rome, and of the International Magazine “Marianum”; and 5) the Venerable Fr. Gabriele M. Allegra, O.F.M., theologian and bible scholar, being the first to translate the Bible to Chinese, and whose beatification process is under way.
Personally, I don't shelter the smallest doubt that this Work is called to be spread more and more for the whole world, so as to offer - as much to Christian as to non-Christian, and in general to all persons of good will - a deeper understanding of Jesus' life, as well as a strong incentive to live His Word in a more radical way. I pray to God that, in spite of the controversies that are always raised with His authentic Works - even inside His Church - many people will end up knowing, enjoying, and benefiting from this Work. It will be, for them, a source of inexhaustible spiritual wealth, and of interior happiness.

Peace

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Noel,

Study carefully always!

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

b,

You are also not our parish priest.  So apparently your postings are useless.

Only using your own logic here.

Posted 11 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

B

You wrote:

Listen to the Spirit.  That's how saints became saints.  They listened to the Spirit.  If you listen to the Spirit, you obey God and anything man puts in front of you is a test from God to see how you deal with it.

Some time ago I suggested that you may have Gnostic tendenceies.

You disagreed.

Perhaps you might like to reconsider.

Ptreviously with tolerance, openness, respect, acceptance and humility (Torah)  we discussed our differences.

Fundamentally we disagree in most things.

You claim flesh/body bad, education/learning bad, I claim the opposite.

Perhaps it is wonderful that there is room for us all in Catholicism.

Protestants have been accused of having different opinions among themselves.  At present does the same hold for Catholics?

Thank you for your advice to me to

Study carefully always!

Are you exempt from this recommendsation, as you get knowledge directly from the Spirit?

************************************************

PS; Gnostics were "people who knew", and their knowledge at once constituted them a superior class of beings, whose present and future status was essentially different from that of those who, for whatever reason, did not know. A more complete and historical definition of Gnosticism would be:

A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century, and which, while borrowing the phraseology and some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day, and especially of Christianity, held matter to be a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06592a.htm).

***************************************************

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Noel,

You do not have true Christian beliefs.  Parsay.  I've read all your posts, you darted from here to there,  never proclaiming Jesus Christ, always questioning one after another, this behavior is unstable as St. James writes. You dodge and dart and lean on others.  What is your proclomation?  Who do you believe in?  So far you believe in yourself and your mind.  Even then deep iniside your spirit you're not sure of who is telling
the truth, what is truth and what church is the true church.  I read a post concerning some other religious person who came in and bashed the Church, he was trying to lead people away, you consented with this person.   As far as I could tell he was led by Satan, because ONLY  Satan comes to lead people away from the Truth.

And the funny thing is you're still doing that.  I can see it in you.

As far as your posts you never rely on what Christ has put in you because you have nothing in you of Christ.  That's plain to see.

Amen.  Christ Reigns!  


Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Noel,

You don't even know what a Gnostic is.  You have never met one, you just read about it and yet even then you still do not know so do not pretend you know.  

Education: you again misguided, I said there is good and bad education.
If you don't know what bad education is, that's your problem.
If you can't recognize bad education as Satan than you have a not understood anything.  At your age you should have more wisdom.  The scriptures are very clear on Good and Evil.  You haven't understood and what you do not understand you put in a "category" and put a label on it and paste it on something like Me.  An unstable person is living between heaven and hell.  Not sure which way to go.  Jesus says I wish your were either hot or cold.  Which one are you today?

Peace



Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Ipoich,

You are also not our parish priest. So apparently your postings are useless.  


Your logic is not available.  Thus your words are empty.  And to use my
own logic as you say:  You are not my parish priest and your post is useless.

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

B

I read your post with interest.

You wrote of me:

you have nothing in you of Christ.

I will think about this and examine my conscience carefully.

I am reminded of Robbie Burns:

"O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!"

God bless,


NoelFitz.
_________________________________________________
In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
_________________________________________________

Posted 11 months ago #
bhokuto - Member
Noel,

From your Pontiff regarding education:

The Pontiff also highlighted the importance of the presence of God in the field of education and, referring to a letter he had recently written on this subject to the diocese of Rome, he indicated that professional formation must be accompanied by formation of the heart, by the presence of God. He added that one aspect of cultural formation is to know the Gospel.

Now this statement is written as to not offend the weaker vessels, but even the Pontiff knows at his ripe old age that there is "bad education"
Education must be in the light of God towards Good.  If what someones teaching leads you away from God it is considered being led astray which leads to Satan and this is "Bad" for you.  If your spirit is being lied to this is "bad" for you.  Which leaves one barren and deflated void of Gods wisdom and power, love and light.  

When a person sees only "bad" his education is corrputed.  And the so called education such as general learning about the history of man's conquests from the Roman Empire to Nazis becomes his doctrine and way of life.  He begins or lives like this, a tyrant.  He proclaims according  to what he learned in his life.  His soul is not given over to God, not yet redeemed.  He cannot understand God because his soul has to be regenerated in order to be revived to God or born to God to live in God.

Now in this above statement I can put down as my footnotes, Romans 6,7,8; St. John 3:3-5;  But you have to arrive at this conclusion by the Spirit of God or God.  God has to show you, otherwise you are still indecisive, and probably clinging on to the fact of the realization that
like the doctors of the law who were amazed at Jesus saying you have to be reborn of water and the Holy Spirit in order to enter Heaven, the old adage I'm a Catholic is stoic and doesn't cut the mustard.  Once you've been baptized by water, you than have to go to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.  

As a baby or an infant many good Catholics and some bad ones bring these babies to a priest to be baptized in water only, but notice what Jesus says "you must be born of the Holy Spirit", another words the Holy Spirit has to be given to each.  Until you receive the Spirit you are partially there not fully.  The Sacrament of Baptism is a two part Sacrament, water baptism and then the laying on of the hands of a priest to present the Holy Spirit.  A good meditation is the Joyful mysteries:  I present them one by one to you so you can see how it relates to us.

Annunciation:  Angel comes to Mary.  for us Your angel is leading you to Mary who leads to Christ.  Your angel uses what's available to him, another believer, et something supernatural because God is supernatural.

Visitation:  Mary goes to greet Elizabeth, at the salutation of Mary the babe in the womb leaps for joy and is immediately filled with the Holy Spirit and makes proclomation.  for us when Mary greets us She comes  with the anointing of the Holy Spirit the first gift, She with the Holy Spirit comes to enlighten our inner person the soul and gives us Her Graces which comes from God.  

Birth of Jesus:  She wrapped Him in swaddling clothes and laid Him in a manger because there was no room in the inn where travelers lodged.
for us She comes to wrap us in Her mantle and lay us in a grotto to learn that the world is dirty grungy and slimy place because Heaven is much much better.

Presentation:  Joseph and Mary followed the Law and brought their little Jesus to a Priest to sprinkle Him with blood to present Him to God.
Actually Mary held Jesus in Her arms Joseph stayed behind Her.
Mary presents us to God through Jesus, She cleans up our souls and makes us ready for God as a gift to God.  The Holy Spirit is at the disposal of Mary just as with Jesus because
She is co-redeemer, A Queen, Jesus is King.

Jesus in the Temple at Jerusalem:  Joseph and Mary return to the Temple after searching for Jesus at every place they could think of but the temple where He was teaching the doctors of the law and they were amazed.  Mary brings us to the Temple of God  2-Since we are the temples of God, she comes to the temple to see if God is there. If not She works to bring God there/back.  She performs the role of co-redeemer along with Jesus, but She does it differently than Jesus.

These are just one instance of what She is to me a general perspective.  I've have a few others which are private.
See I enjoy being in God because Heaven is God and God is everything.

Life is begins and ends with God.
 

Peace
Posted 11 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

b,

It was not my assertion, but yours.

You do not like your own "logic" used in turn on you.

I do not claim your "logic" is valid.

But I was showing you how illogical it was.

 

Posted 11 months ago #
Winslow - Inactive

Now brothers, this is getting a little out of hand.  Let's step back a little and see if we can follow Burns' advice.

 

B, I decided to stop debate with you because it's clear to me you know very little of authentic Catholic doctrine, yet speak as one who thinks he knows everything.  The combination is a non-starter for me and I'm certain I'd be wasting my time and yours by trying to set you straight. 

Your discourse has a certain hauteur by which you place yourself far above the rest of us, posting lengthy lectures which do nothing but leave confusion in their wake.  The allegedly religious person you mentioned who bashed the Church said, among other things, "I don't need no pope to tell me what to think."  Although your words are much more polite, you are saying exactly the same thing when you say, don't listen to the pope, don't listen to the bishops, listen to the Spirit and the Spirit and Scripture will lead you to the truth.  That, whether you agree or not, is the protestant mantra.

You say you are a Catholic.  You haven't convinced me.  I can't figure out whether you're a protestant-Catholic or a Catholic-protestant, but I do know you have brought a lot of protestant baggage with you into the Catholic Church.  I'm not the only one who thinks that.  Read your lectures objectively, if you can, and you'll see it all there.

Yes, Loretta is not our parish priest, but she's not trying to convince us the thoughts of a crippled Italian woman are holy writ.  This may shock you, but I've never heard of Fr. Jorge Fuentes or Bishop Roman Danylak and, without more, their opinions mean nothing to me.  You ought to know there is a lot of money to be made if the writings of this alleged mystic you espouse can be made authentic.  History has shown us some bishops and priests are not averse to money.  I'm not making an accusation, but you'll agree with me these two men you quote are not exactly leaders of the Church.  As of this date, no one I know is in a hurry to get to a bookstore to buy a copy of the book you recommend.  Since you started the 'he's not my parish priest' back and forth, I think you owe Loretta an apology, but that's only my opinion.  You do what you want.

You're right about noel being a little coy about his beliefs, but he is unfailingly polite about it.  If you really want to know what he believes about a particular point of doctrine, why not ask him?

 

Peace

Posted 11 months ago #

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Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge