Just a rambling purge and whatever feedback it solicits:

One thing that drives me nuts about our parish, the tabernacle is not located in the church proper. There is a small chapel directly opposite the main church space, both are off of the vestibule/narthex/whatever it's called, and this is where the tabernacle is located. I'm sure this is well in line with whatever documents govern church layouts, as our pastor as well as our diocese are, for the most part, fluff free. However, every time I go to church, I go to geneuflect before entering a pew, but then I remember I'm supposed to bow to the altar. I always wonder "Why did they set it up this way?"

Anyone have any idea on why a church would be set up so? I know every military chapel I went to had this set up, but you had to accomodate several different faiths every weekend, so you needed a neutral space, so to speak. I just can't figure out the reason for keep Jesus in the other room. For me, it must be that Catholic school upbringing, as soon as you entered the church, God was right there in front of you, physically. Quite a different emotion than what I experience now.

Anyway, I always forget to bring this up, so now I remembered. Any thoughts?

That's a new one on me, Michael.  What does "...in keeping with the meaning of the sign..." mean? 

Tabernacles have traditionally been in the center of the high altar, where it is in my parish church (built in 1908, 100th anniversary this spring).

The only reason I can think of for reposing the Sacrament in an out of the way place is, so few people bother to genuflect when it's at the high altar.  Removing it prevents disrespect to Our Lord.

Peace

Ray II,

As you can read in the GIRM, there is some vagueness that some have chosen to run crazy with. 

I can say that I have seen this done quite well.  I have seen a (modern...therefore, not rectangular in shape) church where the tabernacle is basically IN the wall to the right of the church.  It is surrounded by glass.  So it is still visible to you when you enter the church, but it isn't front-and-center...it is to your right.  So if you're new, you still have the "where's Jesus" question until you see the red candle.  BUT...behind the glass and the tabernacle, just as beautifully done, is a prayer chapel (separate entrance from that of the church).  So people can come in anytime and pray to the tabernacle without entering the church.  I guess that would be "organically connected.

Bottom line?  If the GIRM is vague in any place, it has been taken advantage of, and I have no explanation of why. 

Q: In pre-Vatican II church architecture, tabernacles often were built into the altar. Now, as stated in the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal, the norm is for the tabernacle not to be on an altar on which Mass is celebrated. Why? A: The relevant passage from the GIRM says this: "It is more in keeping with the meaning of the sign that the tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved not be on an altar on which Mass is celebrated" (315). The reason for this change is to emphasize the change of the bread and the wine into the body and blood of Christ that takes place during the Consecration (or, to put it in more traditional terms, to spotlight the "miracle of the Mass"). The reasoning is that if the reserved Blessed Sacrament is kept in a tabernacle on the altar then Jesus is always present on the altar, and the Eucharistic change is not nearly as significant to the congregation as it is when Jesus becomes present on an altar on which he had not been present previously. The miracle that occurs is still awesome under both conditions, but it is better highlighted with the reform of tabernacle placement. Notice that there is no requirement to remove the tabernacle completely from the church but only to create a separation from the altar of sacrifice.

As I said, Michael, it's never been a problem with the Novus Ordo and it isn't now.  I'd guess those practicing the Novus Ordo are simply ignoring GIRM 315.  Most priests ignore the General Instructions anyway.  Half of them couldn't say a proper Mass if their life depended on it.

Peace

Thanks for all the responses, especially the link to the GIRM. By no means am I trying to troubleshoot the parish or the canonical guidance for it, I was just always curious. As a nerd, it's always nice for me to see documents as well.

It does make me nostalgic for the high altar (and yes, there are still plenty of them out there) but maybe that's the reason this bothers me and it could be that there is a calling for those of us who are bothered by this issue. Lots of Catholics, especially younger ones, know nothing about "how it was when I was a kid" and maybe, and I don't know how, we are supposed to be finding a way for them to feel that connection, that moment, that understanding and awe when you walk into God's presence, knowing that when you walk in to that large church, even though you may be the only one there, it is filled with Him and you need to take up as little room as possible because you are not as important or "big" as you think. You are as important as He thinks, and that's a whole different important than we can grasp. It puts us in our place, not to belittle us, but to remind us that we are all important to Him, that even the smallest role in His plan is larger and of greater significance than we can imagine. And more than likely, it has to do with the fact that there is a frailty to our minds and hearts that is helped by "seeing" Him right there, in the tabernacle, allowing us to be with Him. Doubting Thomas and all that.

Or I could just be rambling all over the place in run-on sentences, which are highly underrated as a literary device for the grammatically challenged, I might add.

Either way, thanks again for the info and keep the faith!

Ray

The United States Council of Catholic Bishops issued a document: Built of Living Stones: Art, Architecture and Worship and includes The Location of the Tabernacle paragraphs 74, 75, and 76.

http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/livingstones.shtml#chapteronec

Where's Jesus?... Where's Jesus?? What an odd question indeed!

I would suggest that you look for Jesus in your neighbor to your left, your neighbor to your right, your neigbor in front of you and in your neighbor who sits behind you. But most important, in my opinion, is to look to the temple of your heart, a place that is with you at all times, to find Jesus. Don't look for Jesus in some man inspired vessel lest it bring you to idolatry. Old testament worship is a false need to put a golden idol before your eyes; so that your eyes can behold what your heart cannot.

Sorry folks, I can't agree with you on this one.  

“Man inspired vessel” simple refers to any man made artifact used to hold the Blessed Sacrament upon the completion of the Mass such as: a pyx (usually of gold or silver), used to transport a consecrated Host; a tabernacle (usually of gold or silver) which is believed to be a place of repose for consecrated Hosts (as if repose is possible for Christ!), and a monstrance which is a vessel (usually of gold or silver) in which the consecrated Host is exposed for adoration. All of which, except maybe the pyx, to my mind and conscience are a from of idolatry, false worship, an attempt to put God in a material object so that worship is easier, more comfortable, so the eye can behold what the heart struggles with. Blessed are those that have not seen yet believe.  

Did Jesus set the example of keeping the bread and wine that He Himself consecrated at the last supper to be saved somewhere for later consumption? For religious display? To be adored and worshipped outside the heart? I think not. Yet in our religious fervor to praise God with all our mind, soul and strength we have materially constructed and hammered the same golden vessels to repeat the sin Aaron!

A while back we (michaelme, lpioch, pasque and others) were discussing the "Real Presence" where it was revealed during the coarse of the discussion that it was Church understanding and maybe even Church teaching that the Real Presence leaves the host upon entering the stomach. It leaves the person. I found this revelation quite shocking and deeply disturbing. But the issue was raised. How long does the Real Presence of Christ remain in the host after consecration but not consumed? Did Christ intend us to consume His body and blood or did He intend to have His True Essence entombed in the element of bread to be put on public display. Did He intend external adoration of the consecrated bread? I think not. I would suggest that His presence leaves the host the moment it fails to be consumed or when there is no intention of a reasonable time before consumption. To my mind this renders the placement of the Tabernacle as moot. It has become an unnecessary artifact from the ancient Church that may have led a lot of pious, well intentioned followers of Christ to engage in idolatrous behaviour. Perhaps this is why Church officials move the Tabernacle out of sight when ever possible

.  

<<All of which, except maybe the pyx, to my mind and conscience are a from of idolatry, false worship>>>

Zacheus, you say you conform to Church teaching, but your conclusion as quoted above is heresy.  Catholics do not worship the chalice or the pyx or the monstrance and you should know that.

As to whether Jesus intended that the unconsumed Sacrament be reposed, there is nothing in Scripture about that.  Hence the Church, as she has with much of doctrine and dogma, has had to rely on the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  So the conclusion can be drawn, since it the practice of the Church, Jesus does so intend it.

Peace

First, please don't lecture me, Zacheus.  I don't need it and, frankly, I resent it.

And if you walk into a Catholic church and don't  genuflect or kneel and the Blessed Sacrament is present in the tabernacle, you are showing disrespect for the person of Jesus Christ.  (BTW, your capitalizing 'tablernacle' is idolatry.  You're worshiping a word.  That's about the level of this debate.)

Jesus may have come to save the heretic, but if the heretic persists in his heresy, the Church Jesus formed will invite him out.  I don't fear heresy.  I just identify it in the hope the heretic will reform himself and allow himself to be saved.

If we're going to discuss 'preserved presence' which none of us are qualified to do unless we're theologians, we may as well go on to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Peace