John 6

Five Thousand Fed

 1After these things Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (or Tiberias).

 2A large crowd followed Him, because they saw the signs which He was performing on those who were sick.

 3Then Jesus went up on the mountain, and there He sat down with His disciples.

 4Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was near.

 5Therefore Jesus, lifting up His eyes and seeing that a large crowd was coming to Him, said to Philip, "Where are we to buy bread, so that these may eat?"

 6This He was saying to test him, for He Himself knew what He was intending to do.

 7Philip answered Him, "Two hundred denarii worth of bread is not sufficient for them, for everyone to receive a little."

 8One of His disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said to Him,

 9"There is a lad here who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what are these for so many people?"

 10Jesus said, "Have the people sit down." Now there was much grass in the place So the men sat down, in number about five thousand.

 11Jesus then took the loaves, and having given thanks, He distributed to those who were seated; likewise also of the fish as much as they wanted.

 12When they were filled, He said to His disciples, "Gather up the leftover fragments so that nothing will be lost."

 13So they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten.

 14Therefore when the people saw the sign which He had performed, they said, "This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world."

Jesus Walks on the Water

 15So Jesus, perceiving that they were intending to come and take Him by force to make Him king, withdrew again to the mountain by Himself alone.

 16Now when evening came, His disciples went down to the sea,

 17and after getting into a boat, they started to cross the sea to Capernaum. It had already become dark, and Jesus had not yet come to them.

 18The sea began to be stirred up because a strong wind was blowing.

 19Then, when they had rowed about three or four miles, they saw Jesus walking on the sea and drawing near to the boat; and they were frightened.

 20But He said to them, "It is I; do not be afraid."

 21So they were willing to receive Him into the boat, and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.

 22The next day the crowd that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other small boat there, except one, and that Jesus had not entered with His disciples into the boat, but that His disciples had gone away alone.

 23There came other small boats from Tiberias near to the place where they ate the bread after the Lord had given thanks.

 24So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they themselves got into the small boats, and came to Capernaum seeking Jesus.

 25When they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, "Rabbi, when did You get here?"

Words to the People

 26Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.

 27"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."

 28Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

 29Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

 30So they said to Him, "What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform?

 31"Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.'"

 32Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.

 33"For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."

 34Then they said to Him, "Lord, always give us this bread."

 35Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

 36"But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.

 37"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

 38"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

 39"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

 40"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Words to the Jews

 41Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, "I am the bread that came down out of heaven."

 42They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, 'I have come down out of heaven'?"

 43Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves.

 44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

 45"It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

 46"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.

 47"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

 48"I am the bread of life.

 49"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.

 50"This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.

 51"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."

 52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"

 53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

 54"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

 55"For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.

 56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

 57"As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.

 58"This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

Words to the Disciples

 59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.

 60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, "This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?"

 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, "Does this cause you to stumble?

 62"What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

 63"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

 64"But there are some of you who do not believe " For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

 65And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

Peter's Confession of Faith

 66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

 67So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"

 68Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

 69"We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God."

 70Jesus answered them, "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?"

 71Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Once John 6 is properly understood as the institution of the Eucharist, when Jesus says later in the gospel to his apostles "I am with you always, until the end of time" this takes on a whole new meaning, a deeper meaning...the Real Presence, not only in word, but in sacrament as well.

Be present to the one who is present. 

Pax Christi,
Catalina22

Since I do not have time to write at length I supose I could start with a question of clarity. 

What are some of the key difference between Christ's Sacrifice on the cross as our High Priest and the sacrifices that were offered under the old covenant before the death of Jesus?

They are found throughout the Bible but Hebrews is a good place to start to save a little time.  Please provide scripture refrence where possible.

Thanks!

By God's will, may we endure the weekend to discuss His Son's words!

And, if at all possible, will you share your name when you return? 

In Christ,

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

David,

  I have done no work but wanted you to look at Hebrews 7-10 as it relates to John 6.  I find it important to have a clear understandning of the old covenant so that we can also understand the new.  I supose I am willing to skip to direct questions and assume we agree on the fundamentals. 

I would say that the literal interpertation of both Hebrews 7 and John 6 is a contradiction.

Hebrews 7:

23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

 26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews is cull of the contrast between the old and the new covenant.  The contradiction lies in verse 27.  Please explain how Catholics interperate this verse as it relates to John 6.

To be even more clear, how do you define the word "once" in Hebrews 7:27 as it relates to John 6.  Other verses that include "once" include 1 Peter 3:18, Romans 6:10, Hebrews 9:12, and Hebrews 10:10.  All with the same meanign I would argue.  I am not sure if there are more this is all I was able to find in my search.

Looks like I ended up doing some research after all!

You wrote: 

I just got an eerie sense that lwall had returned to the roundtable...

What does that mean?

Caleb

Wow. Another eerie happening. My wife is due in March and she has suggested...Caleb as a name should it be a boy. What is the root of the name?

lwall, a poster in these forums, would often propose loaded questions that there was no correct answer to, in my opinion, except his own.

Not that I am accusing you of such, I thought the others might see a resemblance is all.

I will look at your last post and respond later.

In Christ,

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

??

Caleb. .  as in Joshua and Caleb who entered the "Promised Land" thus my stage name on this site.  Is this what you are asking? 

I can do this briefly.  (YES!  I'm supposed to be packing for the weekend!)

You write:

26Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews is cull of the contrast between the old and the new covenant.  The contradiction lies in verse 27.  Please explain how Catholics interperate this verse as it relates to John 6.

I see no contradiction.  The Eucharist is the one and the same sacrificed AND glorified Lamb of God.  Not only is Christ the high priest, but he is the innocent victim, too.  Hence why we see in Revelations 5:6,

Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne

The Will and Testament - the culmination of God's covenant with the hebrews is about to be opened (the opening of the 7 seals) - is about to be opened.  Why?  Because the testator has died.  (You cannot open the W&T until the passing of the testator.)

But he is now glorified, but is still a lamb as if he had been slain.

The Eucharist is Christ, past, present, and future.

The Eucharist takes us miraculously back to the Last Supper, to the foot of the Cross, to the Resurrection, and also to the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in Heaven. 

To be even more clear, how do you define the word "once" in Hebrews 7:27 as it relates to John 6. 

Once is once.  There is only 1 sacrifice. 

Here's my 2 questions (again, we have to make sure we are in agreement to the meaning of words).

1)  What is the role of the priest according to Hebrews 7:27?

2)  IS Christ our priest?  Or WAS he a priest?

Catholics believe the role of the priest is as mediator to offer the sacrifice.  This is also the Jewish understanding of priest.

However, in the OT days, the priest was ONLY human, so the sacrifice offering was insufficient.  Christ, both God and man, offers the ONE perfect sacrifice.

Catholics believe Christ IS priest (not just was)...so he STILL offers his sacrifice of Calvary as mediator for men to God.  That's why the Lamb is still seen as if one slain.  But also in glory.

(and no...we don't think he's still suffering.  The sacrifice was once and for all.  But God is beyond time, too.  The Cross and the Resurrection truly are an apex of human history, as they are constantly being made present to us today.)

Noel,

Thank you most excellent Theophilus. I do recall the story but had forgotten the name of the one who came back with Joshua and said that the victory could be won. Interesting contrast between Old and New testament don't you think?

Joshua { Jesus }  with Cephas { Caleb } have surveyed the enemy and are certain that victory can be claimed. Oh well, I'll spend some more time on that personally later.

As to Hebrews and the meaning and placement of "once" in context throughout the Bible, if I concede that it does, indeed, mean what it says, then will you concede on other words that are placed throughout the Bible that mean, or, more precisely as this world gets all the more confusing, meant, something to the writer and audience of the day?  

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Yana,

It was just a figure of speech, no goosebumps or hairs crawling.

Remember, the Sun is always shining!