Are the cohabitating couple getting marrried in the Catholic Church?
Matt,
You may find some answers in the cohabitiation and anullment thread. However, to provide my perspective on this situation, by not being morally obligated to go, do you mean that you will either be in sin or condoning sin?
Each person before they enter into a Sacrament is required to have an examination of consceince. We have First Pennance before First Communion and are instructed that from that time forward we must always present ourselves without mortal sin before the Eucharistic table.
Before entering into matrimony, if properly counseled, the bride and groom will do the same. Since we do not know how the Holy Spirit sanctifies those who come to the Lord seeking forgiveness, and we also do not know the heart of any man, your attendance as a representative of the Christian life, in my humble opinion, is required at the wedding.
Go, be happy for your wife's friend, and be happy for your wife whose friend is going to enter into marriage. Pray for him and his wife that they may see with the eyes of faith while fulfilling their marital vows of love, fidelity and family. Go, and be a witness to the faith.
Just don't do it on top of the bridal party table.
In Christ,
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
David, while you are absolutely correct "Each person before they enter into a Sacrament is required to have an examination of consceince...if properly counseled, the bride and groom will do the same", in reality this may not happen. I shared my experience in the other thread on co-habitating and anullments, so I won't go into it too deeply here. Sadly, I have no recollection of anyone counseling me about the state I should aspire to be in before receiving the sacraments of confirmation and marriage. My husband (then boyfriend) and I were living together, a subject that was avoided by my RCIA team and the deacon responsible for our marriage prep. To enter into marriage in a state of grace is the goal, to do that, one must recognize the sin as sin, and be truely sorry. This may take a VERY long time for the individuals in this relationship to acknowledge and confess. Perhaps Matty's wife can offer her friend some insight as to why his behavior is sinful (evidently he already recognizes it is wrong) and the teachings of the Church on the body. Even if he is not getting married in the Catholic Church (Matty, is his fiance a baptized Christian?), he can certainly make a choice about his actions between now and then! We should pray for this couple. A great resource is a book I gave my step-son and his fiance when they decided to live together: Getting Married and Living Together by Anthony Garascia from Ava Maria Press.
"The Catholic Church frames the Christian life as one in which you must exercise virtue—not because virtue saves you, but because that's the way God's grace gets manifested." Dr. Francis J. Beckwith
WIP,
I agree. You wrote: This may take a VERY long time for the individuals in this relationship to acknowledge and confess.
That is why I suggest attendance...
Do you?
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
Hm-m-m, David. When I started to reply, I though I had the answer, but as I ponder the various points here, I'm not so clear. In the interest of avoiding scandal, a wedding involving close relatives would, I believe, necessitate attendance. In Matty's case, it seems that he and his wife have done all that they can to counsel the future groom. Perhaps the answer lies more in their own discernment which would come forth from their private prayer and their relationship with the individuals. As for me, I would go.
"The Catholic Church frames the Christian life as one in which you must exercise virtue—not because virtue saves you, but because that's the way God's grace gets manifested." Dr. Francis J. Beckwith
WIP,
Sound advice, follow your heart, listen to God.
In Christ,
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
MMCC
I would suggest out of love of God and all concerned, do not judge, go to the wedding and enjoy it.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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If they are to be married in a Catholic Church, I would make an appointment to see the priest and respectfully present my concerns -- especially as this impact the confusion it sows among the faithful.
With respect I disagree with PTR.
Judge not and you shall not be judged.
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself (NRSV, 1 Cor 4:3).
Am I be inconsistrent in making this judgement?
God bless,
NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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We are also called to correct error. How can we do both correct and yet not judge? By correcting the action, while being loving with the person. By respectfully presenting concerns, especially to a priest, I see no judgment, but a responsible living out a call to be faithful to the teachings of the Church.
Either way, it isn't very easy. Either way, there must be much prayer.
Warren,
Well put most excellent Theolphilus. We must, as part of the Body of Christ, and therefore the Church, constantly judge the actions of ourself and our fellow man. All too often in today's world we rely on a false understanding of universal norms and tolerances, losing, as was said by a venerable brother in Christ whose name alludes me at this time, possibly John Cardinal Neumann, that we have lost the sense of sin.
In Christ,
Remember, the Sun is always shining!
David
Pope John Paul II spoke of the loss of a sense of sin.
The pope said that Mary's message to Bernadette was that salvation comes from "prayer and penitence." Man, he said, must "listen to the voice of conscience" where God has placed "the sense of good and of evil." (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/151/story_15108_1.html)
I still consider one can discuss principles, but can never judge that another is in the state of sin.
We can say "to murder is a sin", but not "X is a sinner because he murdered Y".
God bless,
NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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Thanks for the advice. So far nobody has posted a clear reason NOT to go, and I can't quite seem to find a solid one in myself. I just don't seem at peace with going.
On the other hand, my feeling of not being at peace is often confused with stubborn pride.
Maybe this confusion would remove any culpability on my part?
It is still not clear to me if this wedding is in a Catholic Church. This matters, because if it is, we are talking about more than the sins of the groom and bride; we are talking about a priest preparing the couple for and witnessing the sacrament of Holy Matrimony. And we are talking about a Nuptual Mass which introduces the idea of publicly sharing in Eucharist at this event.
If it not in a Catholic Church, then I think the discussion up to this point has covered the ground for, Matty.
MMCC
I am sorry you are troubled. However I am thinking of you.
Jesus ate and drank with those considered sinners.
the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners (NRSV, Mt 11:18).
I think the wedding would do you a lot of good.
Just go to it and enjoy it. When you are at it, rejoice with the couple who will receive a sacrament to help them in their future life.
The wedding may help your other difficulties also.
God bless,
NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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MMCC, If the wedding is Catholic, the priest has already resolved the premarital arrangement. If the wedding is anything other than Catholic, then your presence at the wedding is a full admission of cooperation in the sin and you would be as guilty as sin.
I copied from the Vatican website www.vatican.va regarding premarital sex and a pastoral approach to culture: Tolerance of differences is a necessary virtue in a highly pluralistic society, but it has become absolutized, so that «political correctness» has come to demand extremes of toleration, even public approval, of what had earlier been regarded as deviant, even legally punishable, behaviors - including differences in sexual behaviours, such as premarital sex, divorce and remarriage, homosexuality, etc. The «right to bear arms,» enshrined in the U.S. Constitution at a time when very different cultural, social and technological conditions prevailed, also has been absolutized to the point where legislation to reduce the availability of guns has been difficult to pass, even in the face of rising urban lawlessness, assaults and homicides. Feminism has emphasized the need to change many discriminatory cultural forms which may have been somewhat justifiable in an agricultural society but are clearly dysfunctional and unjust in industrial and post-industrial societies. But the right of women to autonomy has been so absolutized, under the same hegemonic influences, that they have been guaranteed the legal «right» to kill their unborn children for the flimsiest reasons of personal convenience.
I also copied from the catechism:
2390 In a so-called free union, a man and a woman refuse to give juridical and public form to a liaison involving sexual intimacy.
The expression "free union" is fallacious: what can "union" mean when the partners make no commitment to one another, each exhibiting a lack of trust in the other, in himself, or in the future?
The expression covers a number of different situations: concubinage, rejection of marriage as such, or inability to make long-term commitments.183 All these situations offend against the dignity of marriage; they destroy the very idea of the family; they weaken the sense of fidelity. They are contrary to the moral law. The sexual act must take place exclusively within marriage. Outside of marriage it always constitutes a grave sin and excludes one from sacramental communion.
2391 Some today claim a "right to a trial marriage" where there is an intention of getting married later. However firm the purpose of those who engage in premature sexual relations may be, "the fact is that such liaisons can scarcely ensure mutual sincerity and fidelity in a relationship between a man and a woman, nor, especially, can they protect it from inconstancy of desires or whim."184 Carnal union is morally legitimate only when a definitive community of life between a man and woman has been established. Human love does not tolerate "trial marriages." It demands a total and definitive gift of persons to one another.185
I also copied from the catechism regarding civil marriage without Catholic marriage:
1650 Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery"160 the Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.
1651 Toward Christians who live in this situation, and who often keep the faith and desire to bring up their children in a Christian manner, priests and the whole community must manifest an attentive solicitude, so that they do not consider themselves separated from the Church, in whose life they can and must participate as baptized persons:
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen
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