Catholic Exchange Forums » Politics

Fanaticism

(37 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by DonHudzinski
  • Latest reply from DonHudzinski

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DonHudzinski - Member

I used to know a man whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II. They owned a number of large industries and estates. I asked him how many German people were true Nazis, and the answer he gave has stuck with me and guided my attitude toward fanaticism ever since.

"Very few people were true Nazis "he said," but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything, I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories."

We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace.

Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history.

It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who defend the rape of women who aren't covered head to toe, on the grounds that they're "uncovered meat". It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who send little girls back into burning buildings because they're heads aren't covered. It is the fanatics who demand the return to Muslim control land, such as Spain, that had been under Islamic rule, then retaken. The hard quantifiable fact is that the "peaceful majority" is the "silent majority" and it is cowed and extraneous.

Communist Russia comprised Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering
70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

And, who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were "peace loving"?


History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:

Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awake one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold; we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Lastly, I wish to add: I sincerely think that anyone who rejects this as just another political rant, or doubts the seriousness of this issue or just deletes it without paying heed to it, or sending it on, is part of the problem. Lets quit laughing at and forwarding the jokes and cartoons which denigrate and ridicule our leaders in this war against terror. They are trying to protect the interests and well being of the world and it's citizens.

Best we support them

Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator
"We sit by and watch the Barbarian, we tolerate him; in the long stretches of peace we are not afraid. We are tickled by his irreverence, his comic inversion of our old certitudes and our fixed creeds refreshes us; we laugh. But as we laugh we are watched by large and awful faces from beyond; and on these faces there is no smile..." ~ Hillaire Belloc
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
I think Don has a good point. We should be focusing on the fanatics not the Islamist. however I have to wonder if the reason why our government seems to fail to recognize this is because those who are in power , on both sides of the isle are fanatics in their own right. Consider our republican president who didn't bat an eyelash at taking an American citizen into custody, suspending his constitutional rights with the convenient term 'enemy combatant' and then holding him without trial, lawyer , or even contact with his family for more then a year. Don't think it couldn't happen to you. On the left they are even worse however. Consider California where you can now lose your non-profit status for denouncing homosexual behavior because it is 'hate-speech'. How long will it be before denouncing abortion and birth control are also hate speech. How long will it be before , like the Canadians people are arrested for hate speech.
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
I do not think the word "fanatic" is accurate. Ignorance is almost always the more prevalent cause for any errors, followed closely by stupidity. As to the citizen held as an enemy combatant. How about some specifics. While awaiting those, let me say that the seriousness of the matter is so great that anyone of us who has the interests of their country at heart (whether England, Canada, US) ought to be able to see that even if they are falsely held as an "enemy combatant" that the loss of one's individual freedom, perhaps even up to the loss of one's life, may prove to be a small price to pay if the alternative were to be the annihilation of one's country. Do you recall Pat Tilman? Enlisting he almost certainly realized that there was a risk of death by friendly fire, but that did not deter him from entering the fray. The barbaric enemy we face has brought the conflict to our very doorsteps. Whether you drive your own car or take public transportation to work, you are on the front line. Is your back up because you are detained? Get over it. As long as such errors are eventually corrected we are all the better for it. Does the government want to monitor my e-mail to uncover the murderous barbarians, that's fine with me. I'm all for it. I hope they are also listening to all the phone calls they can. When the democrat party and other fellow-travelers of the jihadists insist on putting individual freedoms before collective security, I want to know to whom I will go for compensation when the next attack occurs. This isn't a high school or college debate topic. This is the very life of the democratic West that is at stake. Time enough afterwards to sort out the compensations and reprimands.
Regards,
Old Sigma
PS for CE Technical Support: The navigation options (1 2 Next, etc) for a long thread need to appear at the top of the thread as well as at the bottom.
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
José Padilla http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28alleged_supporter_of_terrorism%29 Is one case: Us. Citizen , arrested in Chicago held indefinably without bound or charges as an enemy combatant. When you are in a war is it tantamount to take great care not to become what you are hunting. If we defeat terrorism by turning the united states into a sudo-fascist totalitarian state like Iraq have we really won anything? Don't get me wrong. The fellow probably deserves it , but you can't just suspend the constitution specifically because it is the law of the land and nobody not even the president should be above it. Let me show you how this can go wrong. Let's say the next president of the United states is Ms. president Hillary Clinton. How much of a stretch is it to classify 'hate speech' (once it is fully accepted as illegal as California has set a president for) as an act of terrorism? I have already heard it denounced using exactly that language by some liberals. Don't think it impossible that catholic priest will be the next one detained as enemy combatants because they were making bigoted slurs against homosexuals by saying homosexual sex is a sin and homosexual Marriage a political nightmare. A president set by one can easily be used by another. How Hitler took power? He was elected AND the German congress voted itself out of existence.
Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

Padilla was involved in a plan to set off a "dirty bomb" to kill and poison hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens.  And although he did not get full constitutional rights, he did some form of due process.  He did not "disappear" as many do in parts of the world.

Do we really want to equate that with "hate speech" against homosexuals?

When it comes to Islam I believe the problem with fanatics is this -- those who have committed atrocities in the name of Christianity have been Christians who have ignored or disobeyed the teachings of Christianity. In Islam, the moderates are those who have ignored or disobeyed the teachings of Islam.

The problem is in the texts of the Quran, which was written in and is still read in the Arabic.  It says what it says.  Those who claim to follow Islam have to deal with those texts which command the Muslim faithful to do violence. 

Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
For the sake of argument ( although his pending trial has had some indications otherwise). Let's assume that Padilla is the real deal, a bonaified terrorist to the bone plotting against the U.S. The fact that he is a U.S. citizen AND on U.S. soil should have left NO QUESTION about his status as a defendant and right to a fair trial. The president took an OATH that he would uphold and ensure exactly those rights. To the question: >Do we really want to equate that with "hate speech" against homosexuals? The answer is of coarse NO NO NO!!. The PROBLEM is that it is already happening. I have heard liberal commentators on the radio use exactly that language. I have seen liberal state campus administrators make it clear they will eject people from campus housing without academic hearing for 'hate-speech' like saying homosexual sex is a sin using a policy enacted a few months earlier to stop Nazi's from distributing literate on campus. The fact is as far as Hilary Clinton and many in her camp are concerned. Their is no significant difference between a Christian who 'hates women' by trying to ban abortion and 'hate' homosexuals by trying to stop them from getting married and Nazis. That is a fact of the political landscape. So even though the president may have circumvented the law for 'good reasons' he did in fact circumvent the law and now we are all in more danger when someone less moral then him is in a position of power.
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
A fanatic is "marked by excessive enthusiasm for and intense devotion to a cause or idea;" Republicans are fanatical about free enterprise and 'spreading democracy and capitalism'. Democrats are fanatical about abortion and buggery as far as I'm concerned anyone who is willing to circumvent the protections of the constitution and disregard the common good to get their way is a fanatic. Not to say that fanaticism doesn't have a certain place evils are in fact a prevision of a good. The good in this case that is being perverted is devotion to God. Fanaticism, from French fanatique or Latin fanaticus 'of a temple, inspired by a god'.
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
Fishman posted (in part):
The fact that he is a U.S. citizen AND on U.S. soil should have left NO QUESTION about his status as a defendant and right to a fair trial. The president took an OATH that he would uphold and ensure exactly those rights.
Per the Constitution, a citizen's taking up arms against the US is de-facto treason. This is not a matter for a civil court to decide as treason is an act of war. In combat traitors may get a chaplain, before they are shot by a military firing-squad. A trial is afforded only as time permits and the rules of war, not civil crime, apply. The manner of bringing force to bear that has been adopted by the terrorists mean that the clear lines of combat in customary war have been abrogated. Hence every act of a terrorist oriented towards causing harm to the terrorist's target establishes the battlefield right there, on the spot. If you are going to grant a trial it ought to be the same type of trial afforded in a combat zone. Namely a military tribunal. A traitor deserves no more consideration, in the rules of war, than a spy. Summary execution is prescribed. Harsh? You bet. Nothing is more of a betrayal than to have someone, who has masqueraded as adhering to the Constitution, violate that document. The punishment should fit the crime. The rules of war exist to protect civilian and non-combatant populations. The terrorists ignore the distinction and by this very act, place themselves in a nebulous status subject only to military law. In combat a prisoner is a prisoner until the cessation of hostilities at the discretion of the country holdign the prisoner subject only to the Geneva conventions to which the terrorists are not signatory. Hence they are outside its protections. Notably, it is even contrary to the Constitution to advocate the use of violence to overthrow the US Government. What Padilla did went beyond simple advocacy and exercsie of free-speech, the latter of which, of course, is not permissible under the Constitution in the case of violent overthrow of the US Government.
Regards,
Old Sigma
PS for CE Technical Support: The navigation options (1 2 Next, etc) for a long thread need to appear at the top of the thread as well as at the bottom.
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
From the constitution of the united states of america Section 3 Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. In other words ( under normal circumstances ) you must be convicted of treason in a court. What you are talking about is , i believe, military law , which is intended for use only during the extreme situation of active battle.
Posted 1 year ago #
fishman - Member
From the constitution of the united states of america Section 2 Clause 3: The Trial of all Crimes, except in Cases of Impeachment, shall be by Jury; and such Trial shall be held in the State where the said Crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the Trial shall be at such Place or Places as the Congress may by Law have directed.
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

Constitution is of no use? President Bush said sometime back that America is a "state of mind" 

The America of yester year is gone!  Whooosh! bye bye!! 

We need to pray for His Kingdom to come! Not this world nor this country!  This is the only solace we can have in this life.  Man is corrupt!  We are not to be corrupted by them any longer.  We are of the heavenly kind. Not of the earthly.  We have to show are neighbor this truth.  When we finally unite for the cause of the Kingdom, our peace inside us will light up the night!  Brighter then all knows! 

God says this take it for what it's worth read with your spiritual eyes:

ISAIAS 55:1-13

"God promises abundance of spiritual graces to the faithful, that shall believe in Christ out of all nations, and sincerely serve him."

1 All you that thirst, come to the waters: and you that have no money make haste, buy, and eat: come ye, buy wine and milk without money, and without any price. 2 Why do you spend money for that which is not breed, and your labour for that which doth not satisfy you? Hearken diligently to me, and eat that which is good, and your soul shall be delighted in fatness. 3 Incline your ear and come to me: hear and your soul shall lire, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the faithful mercies of David. 4 Behold I have given him for a witness to the people, for a leader and a master to the Gentiles. 5 Behold thou shalt call a nation, which thou knewest not: and the nations that knew not thee shall run to thee, because of the Lord thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel, for he hath glorified thee.

6 Seek ye the Lord, while he may be found: call upon him, while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unjust man his thoughts, and let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God: for he is bountiful to forgive. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts. 10 And as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and return no more thither, but soak the earth, and water it, and make it to spring, and give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it. 12 For you shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall sing praise before yen, and all the trees of the country shall clap their hands. 13 Instead of the shrub, shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the nettle, shall come up the myrtle tree: and the Lord shall be named for an everlasting sign, that shall not be taken away.

Posted 1 year ago #
chaletart - Inactive
again...this goes to some of my other posts....
Why do we focus on one sin, homosexuality and leave everything else out. Yes, God talked against it....but he talked against other things just as much if not more so.... We, as christians, tend to take up battles and stances instead of love. Whether you think behavior is right or wrong...love the person where they are at and when they become a christian God will take care of there "sin" no matter what it is. How come I don't see christians  come out against the religion of sports, alcoholism or a strong case of the Pharasee(ism)...hmmmm??? Becaus I think we all have a case a fanaticism, where we tend to forgo doing what is right to forcing things to be how we want them to be.

BTW - Even a moderate muslism wants to abolish Israel, and if we get an ani-israel president and the united states stops supporting Israel I believe Gods blessing on us will cease. See?!? Even I am a fanatic about something.... : )
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

Ah, Protestant thinking all the way around!  Protestants think because U.S. supports Israel that this country is around.  No No NO!

Providence supports us that is why we are still around! 

You want to understand God?  Get rid of ideological Protestant Thinking! 

Start from the Eucharist then work your way around. 

Where did Jesus every state that, that if we supported Israel we would stand?

If fact look at Saudi Arabia, Look at China, Look at Russia, Look at other countries around the region.  Things work according to Gods plan, not mans.  Nor Mans Ideas.  The Old testament says "I" "God" works.  Not Man.  Protestant thinking is "in league with" ideology forgetting that God works and wills all things.  This gets you into all kinds of theological misgivings and into much trouble.

The temple was destroyed around 70 AD, Jesus told them this in the Old testament and in person.

Read the prophets.  It does not say He who supports you will be upholded.  Read the above

Isaiah 55:5

Then read Isaias 55:4

 

Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

One more word,  Jesus said in pretty much these words to His Apostles, "He who hears you, Hears Me."

Others versions say, He who Receives You, Receives Me, <this is Protestant thinking about Israel when Jesus is clearly talking to the Apostles, Who Started His Church.  So it is like this He who Receives Your Words and Receives You -Peter, Paul, James, John, Receives MY Words and Receives Me.  The Church.  Got it?  Thus any one who receives Protestantism does not Receive Christ.  Because of this fact.  What is in the Catholic Faith?  JESUS, The Deposit of Faith, Fullness of Christ, Eucharist <<Most Important.  Why is America going down the tubes?  It's not because we support Israel?  If this were true that we supported Israel shouldn't God be blessing this country with unending Goodness?  Oh, Boy! What theology!  Nonsense my friend in fact, this country has been blessed by God years ago, but cursed by it's own thinking!  Doing its' own will.

Read the beattitudes and the rest of what Jesus has to say.  Then you realize the messed up Protestant ideologies.  "Mixing in" where it should be "meshing and flowing."  God works smoothly.  Jesus came to preach the new ways of the old testament.  Fulfillment.

Remember this very well.  This is Christs Theology.

Read and study the CCC.  Use the Bible to combat Satan, The Word.

God Bless

Posted 1 year ago #
chaletart - Inactive
Nice to know that total unabashed anti-semitism is still out there as strong as ever.....
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

protestant thinking still

 

You still don't understand the Gospel.

For God so Love the World! 

Jesus never said Away with YOU! 

James says there is only one Judge.  You have just judged. Think about it!  I merely say things to push you to see if you understand the Bible and the Message of God.  Now listen to my next words, I have observed that you do not comprehend what the Bible is nor the Gospel.  If you comprehended it you would not judge others.  We are to be like Him not like them.  Them being the world. 

We are to reprove the works of darkness, sheding light and truth, a different stance.  Because it is the Word of God it is a sword piercing the soul, those who are anti-christ will become even more so feeding their ideas, those who are seeking truth will here the truth and be pierced.  For sorrow works Gods righteousness. Pride works the devils malice.

What is the Gospel?  It is many things, but main hard line is Salvation through Jesus Christ, Which many rejected. 

Anti-semitism is else where not here, it is definitely in your mind.

We do not bash jews, we merely help them.  With our Church.  But you believe in Protestantism which is incorrect theology. 

 

If what the Protestants claim is true about Israel and that being U.S. suporting them is such, then how come U.S. was founded some 200 years ago and it probably had no idea of the State of Israel?  Israel came back in the 1948 or so.

Where's the connection?  There is none.  In fact if It wasn't for Hitler killing lots of them and the Church helping them sheltering them, there would be no state of Israel.  Get the point?  Protestant thinking is actually making things worse for them.  They don't need our help.  Because God is their God.  Which protestants don't realize this fact.  The Bible is about God and man and Jews and Gentiles.

To the Jew first, then the Gentiles.  You did not comprehend Isaias 55:4

It says Jesus will be the Master of the Gentiles.

As for Israel a country who knew you not will run to you.  It says run as in Help!

God Bless

 

Posted 1 year ago #
chaletart - Inactive
Gensis 12:2-3....Yes, they need our help...they will be carried on our backs. Darn my protestism...gets in the way  of helping, praying and know my jewish roots....is that biblical YES....is that knowing my bible YES....
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

God uses whomever to help them.  Isa 55:5, He allowed Hitler to kill them, with His hand He saved them and brought them back home.  Isa 55:4 Jesus is the Master of the Gentiles.  It is Providence that keeps the whole thing, not America. 

Those who curse Abraham as in his person.

Jesus did away with the curses.

Israel came about.  Abrahams promise was to build a nation.  Through Him came the Messaiah who if anyone follows will be blessed. <<This is the Promise. Those who do not will live eternal damnation.  Thus Jews are still waiting for their Messaiah not knowing that the promise has been fulfilled so Jesus has to come a second time. 

Two points more: 

Jews Gods chosen Isa 55:5

Church: Jesus Christ  Isa 55:4

The two work hand in hand. 

It is Gods bidding not Protestantism. 

Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world.  Thus those who do not believe are looking at worldly things.  This is also the Gospel.

We are in the times of the Prophets His Servants, the Time of the Gentiles -- Apocalypse. The fulfillment of Prophecies. 

God bless

 

Posted 1 year ago #
chaletart - Inactive
ahhhh...kinda a eastern philisophical type of approach at at christianity, don't mess, don't help because God will use someone.... 

Hitler succeeded in killing people not because "God allowed it", but because the body failed. People like Cardinal Adolf Bertram who were more scared for themselves than for what is right.

I suppose your right...providence is keeping this nation alive...well that, and as you say, staying as an isolationist american and christian.

Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

No don't go there.  We have to hope in Christ. 

 

Let me give you another way of looking at Gods point of view:

1) Man sins and falls

2) God watches observes mans behavior -- the outcome

3) Man is unable to return to God as in Eden.

4) God decides to save one man and his family. Noah (we all come from Noah)

5) God brings about a new plan into mans life style, that being a way for man to return to Him.

6) God brings His plan of salvation Jesus

7) God brings man back to Him through Jesus

 

Another way: God is starting over He does this by cleansing the sin to return man back to Paradise.  Back to the original before fallen state.  We are in the firey pot being cleansed.

As the silvesmith refines his silver so does God to His children. 

Now lets bring in the one who caused man to sin, Lucifer.

He has to be eradicated also so there's a two fold mission for God.

How does God bring us back?  Through His plan of salvation, the Church, which is in Jesus Christ.

Very simple, just a lot of theories and stuff called distraction.  Test, trials, equal fire to bring out the impurities.  This is the stuff that causes pain and suffering, if the silver had feelings it would sound a lot like us under trials.  Thus Pain and Suffering is the thing that we feel when being cleansed.  The impure stuff causes pain as it is being pulled out of us, sometimes we don't give it up, thus the fires of purgatory where we have no choice but to be still. 

God Bless

Posted 1 year ago #
KenB - Member

There is definitely a difference between fanatical Muslims and reasonable Muslims, and I think we ought to be trying to talk reasonably with the more reasonable folks in the Islamic community.  However I think we also should look at ourselves and our own decadent culture, and try to understand how traditional societies could truly feel threatened by us; our power, and what they see as our awful culture.

I think Dinesh D'Souza has effectively captured and explained this notion in his new book.  I apolgize for it is a bit long, but because I think it pertains to this discussion, here is a excerpt from the book's introduction:

THE ENEMY AT HOME:  by Dinesh D'Souza

" In this book I make a claim that will seem startling at the outset.   The cultural left in this country (such people as Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, George Soros, Michael Moore, Bill Moyers, and Noam Chomsky) is responsible for causing 9/11.   The term “cultural left” does not refer to the Democratic Party.  Nor does it refer to all liberals.  It refers to the left wing of the Democratic Party—admittedly the most energetic group among Democrats, and the main source of the party’s ideas.   The cultural left also includes a few Republicans, notably those who adopt a left-wing stance on foreign policy and social issues.  Moreover, the cultural left includes organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union, the National Organization for Women, People for the American Way, Planned Parenthood, Human Rights Watch, and moveon.org.       In faulting the cultural left, I am not making the absurd accusation that this group blew up the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.  I am saying that the cultural left and its allies in Congress, the media, Hollywood, the nonprofit sector and the universities are the primary cause of the volcano of anger toward America that is erupting from the Islamic world.   The Muslims who carried out the 9/11 attacks were the product of this visceral rage—some of it based on legitimate concerns, some of it based on wrongful prejudice—but all of it fueled and encouraged by the cultural left.  Thus without the cultural left, 9/11 would not have happened.     I realize that this is a strong charge, one that no one has made before.   But it is a completely neglected aspect of the 9/11 debate, and it is critical to understanding the current debate over the war against terrorism.  Here in America, the political right routinely accuses the left of being weak in its response to Islamic terrorism.   For example, conservatives often allege that the left’s desire to “understand” the roots of Islamic discontent dilutes American resolve in fighting the enemy.   If this is true, then fortifying the left’s resolve becomes the obvious solution.   My argument is quite different.   It is that the left is the primary reason for Islamic anti-Americanism as well as the anti-Americanism of other traditional cultures around the world.   I intend to show that the left has actively fostered the intense hatred of America that has led to murderous attacks such as 9/11.   If I am right, then no war against terrorism can be effectively fought using the left-wing premises that are now accepted doctrine among mainstream liberals and Democrats.

     The left is responsible for 9/11 in the following ways.   First, the cultural left has fostered a decadent American culture that angers and repulses traditional societies, especially those in the Islamic world, that are being overwhelmed with this culture.   In addition, the left is waging an aggressive global campaign to undermine the traditional patriarchal family and to promote secular values in non-Western cultures.   This campaign has provoked a violent reaction from Muslims who believe that their most cherished beliefs and institutions are under assault.  Further, the cultural left has routinely affirmed the most vicious prejudices about American foreign policy held by radical factions in the Muslim world, and then it has emboldened those factions to attack the United States with the firm conviction that “America deserves it” and that they can do so with relative impunity.   Absent these conditions, Osama Bin Laden would never have contemplated the 9/11 attacks, nor would the United States today be the target of Islamic radicals throughout the world.  Thus when leading figures on the left say, “We made them do this to us,” in a sense they are correct.  They are not correct that “America” is to blame.  But their statement is true in that their actions and their America are responsible for fostering Islamic anti-Americanism in general and 9/11 in particular...."

"... We should not dismiss the Islamic or traditional critique so easily.   In fact, as our own domestic and cultural debate shows, we know that many of the concerns raised by the radical Muslims are widely-shared in our own society.   Indeed, many conservative and religious Americans agree with the Islamic fundamentalists that American culture has become increasingly vulgar, trivial and disgusting.  I am not merely referring to the reality shows where contestants eat maggots or the talk shows where guests reveal the humiliating details of their sex lives.  I am also referring to “high culture,” to liberal culture that offers itself as refined and sophisticated.        Here, for example, is a brief excerpt from Eve Ensler’s “The Vagina Monologues,” a play that won rave reviews and Hollywood accolades and is now routinely performed (according to its own publicity materials) in “more than 20 countries, including China and Turkey.”   In the book version of the play—now sold in translation in Pakistan, India, and Egypt—Ensler offers what she terms “Vagina Occurrences”:  “Glenn Close gets 2,500 people to stand up and chant the word xxxx…There is now a Cnnt Workshop at Wesleyan University…Roseanne performs ‘What Does Your Vagina Smell Like?” in her underwear for two thousand people…Alanis Morisette and Audra McDonald sing the cunt piece.”[xxx]  And so on.  If all of this makes many Americans uncomfortable and embarrassed—which may be part of Ensler’s objective—one can only imagine how it is received in traditional cultures where the public recitation of such themes and language is considered a grotesque violation of manners and morals.   Nor is Ensler an extreme example.   If the garbage heap of American excess leaves many Americans feeling dirty and defiled at home, what gives America the right to dump it on the rest of the world?..."
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

I don't know how this all ties in with Catholicism.  I thought we were of the Heavenly Kind, our home is not here.  Why defend something that is temporal?  Defend the Church that is eternal.

God Bless

Posted 1 year ago #
KenB - Member

It ties into Catholicism in that the Pope recently made an effort to reach out to reasonable Muslims, in the hope of calming their fears. 

To paraphrase someone from history (I do not recall who); if reasonable people do nothing, evil can easily win the day.

It seems quite simple; we in the US should try to be more faithful to, and turn our culture back toward, God.

 

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Fishman RE:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. Clause 2: The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted. In other words ( under normal circumstances ) you must be convicted of treason in a court. What you are talking about is , i believe, military law , which is intended for use only during the extreme situation of active battle."
I believe we are in battle.  Every street, every means of public transportation, every gathering of citizens, is a potential battleground because that is the choice of the terrorists.  You do not read these people their Miranda rights if you want to minimize the deaths of innocents.  We are all in this battle zone.  If anyone of us turns against our country at such a moment we are no better than a spy operating behind the lines in a conventional combat zone.  The authorized penalty is death.  The Geneva convention requires one to wear a uniform and prohibits guerilla-terorist acts.  I repeat, Padilla is fortunate he wasn't shot as soon as his threatening intent became known.  Someone, somewhere gave him all the breaks he had coming; really they gave him more than he had a right to.  Back in the cold war, there were people who espoused the notion "Better Red than dead." What you are advocating sounds to me to be just as foolish as they were then.  Where were you when the planes hit the towers?  Where were you when the plane hit the pentagon?  Where were you when the plane crashed in Pennsylvania?
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Need-A-Saint RE:
"I thought we were of the Heavenly Kind, our home is not here. Why defend something that is temporal? Defend the Church that is eternal."
If you don't oppose the jihadists everywhere you will wind up facing the sword or having to convert to Islam.  These people are serious.  If you want to defuse them your only alternative to opposing them with force of arms is to convert them.  I don't see any Francis of Assisi on the scene or any volunteers for missionary work in Saudi Arabia, or Kuwait, or Pakistan, or Indonesia, or Egypt.  And those are the easy places. 

A man was told the valley would flood, that he should evacuate.  He said he had faith that the Lord would save him and he stayed.  The water rose.  The fire dept. came in a boat and told him the water would get higher, that they had come to rescue him.  He gave the same answer as he had given before.  The water rose.  A helicopter hovered over his roof where he had taken refuge.  Come with us they said with the loud-hailer.  The man refused, saying the Lord would provide.  He had faith.  The water rose.  With a boat, his neighbor came up to the chimney where the man had taken refuge.  Come on! Get in! the dam is about to break.  The man answered that he had faith, that he would trust in the Lord.  His neighbor glanced around with a worried look and finally left with all the speed his little outboard could muster.  The dam broke.  The man was swept away to a watery grave.  When he arrived at the Gates of Heaven, he demanded, of Peter, somewhat indignantly, to know why the Lord had not saved him, he had been steadfast in faith through all the tribulations.  Peter said in reply: "How many times did He need to offer to rescue you?  Yes, God helps those who help themselves. 

And in any case, would you let the innocent die?  If all is temporal then the unborn baby isn't worth the effort of defense either.

Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Need-A-Saint RE:
"Why is America going down the tubes? It's not because we support Israel?"
Why the question mark?  Is this an ironic question? 
"If this were true that we supported Israel shouldn't God be blessing this country with unending Goodness?"
Are you saying that God has abandoned Israel and so will not show mercy on any who help Israel?  Or is your thought something else? 
"...in fact, this country has been blessed by God years ago..."
I guess you mean the US.  In what way was the US visited by God's blessing?  Just what event demonstrates this?  Name a few cases and tell us why you think that blessing was bestowed.
"...but cursed by it's own thinking!"
I think you got that wrong, not due to its thinking.
"...Doing its' own will."
You've got it now.
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Need-A-Saint RE:
"If what the Protestants claim is true about Israel and that being U.S. suporting them is such, then how come U.S. was founded some 200 years ago and it probably had no idea of the State of Israel? Israel came back in the 1948 or so."
If God's hand is in this, there is no puzzle about the US coming into being what seems to us to be well in advance of its being needed.  The bible is full of evidence that God engages in long range planning.
Regards,
Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic)
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: ChaletArt RE:
"Hitler succeeded in killing people not because "God allowed it", but because the body failed. "
You are more right than Need-A-Saint when you say it wasn't a case of "God allowing it," at least if the "permissive will" distinction is made.  What do you mean by "the body failed." (flesh willing etc.?)
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

I was talking with ole chaletart, concerning protestantisms, that I was in a while back.  And trying to show that "in league" with is not in keeping with scriptures.

The fact he claims is because America is supporting Israel is the reason for Americas very reason for existence.  This line of thinking is very protestant. Not Catholic.

That was my point. 

First, whether we live or die we live for Christ.  That is the other statment.

I know this I die when God calls me home.  How I die doesn't matter(earthly).  As long as I die for Christ.  Because I know I will be with Him as long as I stay true.

Ever hear Bishop Sheen?  He said in so few words that God created America to help other poor countries, to help do away with the radicals like Hitler, the Axist alliance, Communists or lets put it this way, Restrain them for a time, until they manifest their true nature.  As the world is ever changing to setup for the last battle. 

Defense, we the faithful defend in prayer.  Prayer motivates God on a level we cannot fathom. Prayer is our weapon.

Others like radicals defend physically.

Doing it's own will requires thinking on some level.

Wars are acts of chastisement from God.  Ever read the Old testament?

God allowed Hitler and the others.  This world belongs to God at least the last I read the bible it was so.  Did we get a new revealation?

 

God bless

 

Posted 1 year ago #

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Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge