Catholic Exchange Forums » Politics

The Constitution of the United States

(16 posts)
  • Started 9 months ago by wljewell
  • Latest reply from wljewell

wljewell - Member
God loves you . Political discussions proliferate, here and elsewhere. (One might add: 'for better or for worse.') A recent Politics forum post recommended reading our Constitution of the United States. Good idea, LiveBlueForever. With government and politics in the air, what with the imposing war on terror and the 2008 Presidential election, it is a good idea if we all bone up on our federal Constitution. To that end, I provide a useful link - HERE! (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html) For any who really want to get deep about this, plus be able to read state constitutions as well, try THIS SITE (http://www.usconstitution.net/) It has been suggested that most of us would have to read it several times in order to get past the 'insomnia remedy' aspects of the dry and stiff prose. But, it is worth the effort. You're welcome! Remember, I love you, too . In the Suffering of Christ, and in His hope of His Resurrection, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 9 months ago #
LiveBlueForever - Inactive

Actually, it would be a good idea for the citizens of this nation to read it regularly.  I will be direct here and say upfront that I have no problem personally-and keep that point in mind here-if the USA planted its flag all across the Middle East.  However, from a Constitutional standpoint, the US Congress has failed miserably and ten times more than the current President has because not since 1945, has it issued a formal Declaration of War.  The last 50 plus years has seen the Commander-in-Chief with a blank check to wage "police actions," "rescue operations," "national security protections," and God knows what else that Special Forces has done that we know nothing of and all without a single Declaration of War, only Resolutions.  Like I said, personally I would prefer to see Old Glory waving across the Middle East and a Bradley tank letting everybody over there know that they can sit down, shut up, and stop killing but from a Constitutional standpoint, it is the imperative and total right of the United States Congress to cut off all funding for any military action deemed unfit and there is not one thing that would be wrong with that action.  It would be the most Constitutional action ever taken by any of the 112 Congress'.  Thus, I hope that every single registered voter reads that document several times before they cast the vote that decides the future of that document.

 

 

Joseph Bailey

Posted 9 months ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . "Constitutionally", LBF, our Congress has permitted courts to walk all over their legislative prerogatives. It is no surprise that they are too squeamish to actually align with executive powers. However, just because it is Constitutional, as penumbratically abortion is (via 'privacy', 'choice', ego-activist judicial dictatorial presumption) does not make the action right, correct, moral or valuable. Our founders were depending on statesmen (and women, ex post facto) loaded with integrity to make all those stick, and in all three branches. By now, George Washington, et al, would be wondering aloud: "What have we DONE?" Though, you wouldn't see those questioning comments in the MSM, anymore; one more group which is endangering and nearly betraying our liberty, independence and prosperity. Congress has lots of help greasing the slippery slope. One studying the Constitution would do well to realize that he is looking up-the-hill at it. Remember, I love you, too . In the Suffering of Christ, and in His hope of His Resurrection, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 9 months ago #
LiveBlueForever - Inactive

I think the "abortion question" is a perfect example of how certain issues have become "Constitutional" when that question is far from settled.  It is sad beyond all measure that the Electorate in America, actually thinks that voting for a particular candidate is all about abortion.  Think about it, were all the sacrifices made for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness done so that a fetus could be killed?  How many women voters in this next election will vote solely on the basis of whether they want abortion?  Is that not sickening to an extreme that citizens of this country would convince themselves that a Presidential election is all about killing a fetus?  I doubt that a single mouth in favor of abortion or proclamations for a candidate who favors it, have ever read the Constitution or know the first thing of what it means to have that document.  No, all they are concerned about is the fulfillment of their wanton destruction of human life.  Otherwise, they would not make this issue what it is and would address the real reason they want abortion: to erase what they did.

 

Joseph Bailey

Posted 9 months ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . LBF - Sin is the ultimate illness, and none of us well in that regard. Large groups of "Catholics" will vote based only on financial issues. Other large groups of "Catholics" will pull a full-party lever because "my parents did", etc. And, in most cases, they will have 'really known better'. It is quite probable that every sect can count such thoughtless, self-centered folk in their numbers. Yes - abortion is a sin that covers another sin, quite often. But, humanity has done that all along - Adam deceitfully hid from very God because "I was naked" - ('Umm, I ate that fruit - maybe if I don't run into Him He won't notice.')! Yes, sin leaves us 'naked' - gracelessly exposed - to other sin. Only as each heart, mind, will, spirit and soul of us turns to God - another but large-scale Nineveh, a la Jonas - can we anticipate justice, peace, true freedom and the courage to see such gifts through to our ends. Yes, Lord - thank You for our gracious and grand Constitution - and our wondrous Declaration of Independence. We have these two blessings, and ignore them like we ignore You. O, my Lord, have mercy! Remember, I love you, too . In our delighted glory in our Infant King, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 9 months ago #
internate - Inactive

I applaud this discussion and am glad to see it. The Constitution is a powerful document, and it has seemingly been lost for the past two generations, if not more. But I think that it is in the wake of the current administration and congress that we are starting to see what the founding fathers, in fact, were trying to prevent by writing it. We see the gross misuse in our government, in each branch, that results from straying away from wisdom it holds. Is it not in the oath of office that the president says that he will protect and uphold the constitution? 

 

I do not believe that this is something that we can simply dismiss as wishful thinking or as idealistic. Ideals are what made the Constitution possible in the first place. And trust me, those ideals are being replaced by different ideals, and ones that this country and its people are not privy to.

 

I do not trust the government. This is not paranoia. This is, in fact, the position that the founding fathers had when they wrote the document. They had lived under the tyranny of the British crown and wanted to create a government that was prevented from doing the same. And so they did. And while their writings were surely ahead of their time then, it seems that they still are. 

 

But today is a new day. And soon the day will dawn when we have the choice to elect someone who will swear to uphold that mighty document. But alas, I do not feel that each candidate will be up to the challenge. As we've already witnessed, many do not possess the knowledge of the Constitution, nor the will to carry it out.

 

At the age of 29, I can say that my eyes have been opened. Not only to the truth of the Church, but to the truth of this Nation. And they are not in opposition. I consider many of our founders to have stumbled upon real truth just as the prophets once did. And as I continue to learn more, my desire for the true dignity in man as a child of God to be seen in our own citizens grows ever stronger.

 

So to those who think that this Nation may be lost, rest assured, there are those of us who will spend the time that we do have left helping it find its way home. With the Gospels in one hand and the Constitution in the other. 

 

God Bless you all,

NT 

Posted 8 months ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Our founders 'stumbled' upon truth, or our founders were inspired in truth and by Truth? This came about both from the faith that they understood is gift toward more gifts, and their reason that they harmonized to effect first a Declaration for independent freedom, and then a Constitution to bind the federation to its responsibilities in freedom. Too, were we graced with a leader in George Washington who was symbolically, vocally and actually ready, willing and eager to put his all into this country. Point to one such statesman since, in any country in this world, that achieved like this man? He led not only freedom forces, but the Constitutional convention out of which the Declaration flowered into our vital entity of these United States of America. He served to make a republic of a land, with a President to be acclaimed or ousted every four years; no king for Washington, even if he were that king. Nothing in our Declaration or Constitution should make us think to form career political persons. Like Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, etc., a politician is to be an accomplished citizen promoted more as statesman than politician; and, a servant of those servants, of the general American citizenry, lower in power than he or she. It could be that we have not seen the likes of such as these stalwarts in any general sense since the Jackson presidency. Of positivist judiciary, we can go back to the late nineteenth century, when the very modernist ways with which the Church has suffered were arising. Modernist ways seem synonymous with elitist self-appointed know-better know-nothings. But, I will note that most of our founders had most worried over the non-elective nature of the judiciary, where they were not beholden to political purposes and parties, but neither to the citizen electorate. They worried that the judiciary just might turn out as it has, in this positivist, modernist, dictatorial vein of our current crop of judges. We as earnest Catholics are urged to go back to the patristic Church, to the first leaders after the Apostles to learn the roots of our tradition. Americans should in such earnest learn the history of our country from before Columbus sailed in 1492, and more intensely as we progressed into independent freedom. That we have schools that teach no actual history, but politically correct revisions, and yet how to use a condom (and even to go ahead and try them out!) reflects just how our fate may turn out - more in apathetic and frustrating ignorance than in even elitist deceit. Remember, I love you, too . In our delighted glory in our Infant King, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 8 months ago #
internate - Inactive

 

Agreed. It is a sad state of affairs. With you I stand on so many issues. And like you, I see our history not to be a thing of our past, but our hope for the future.

 

That being said, I do have hope that's not simply a notion of how things used to be. My hope, next to Christ himself, is in a humble 72 year old obstetrician from Houston who is running for the office of President of the United States. He is Dr. Ron Paul.

 

I know I've left a few posts in this forum so far, espousing my personal beliefs of human liberty and freedom from tyranny, but know that this is not something I normally do. In fact, it's something I've never done. Politics for me have been, in my eyes, a necessary evil. It was a mess that never represented me or my views, and one that did not seem intended on changing that fact. Disgust and apathy were the only things I knew I could look forward to in an election. But all that changed about two months ago.  

 

A friend of mine, and fellow disgusted Catholic, told me about a man who was running in the Republican Primary who seemed different. His views, he and soon I noticed, were very much like ours. He opposed unjust war, he was pro-life, he believed the church and not the state should be in charge of marriage, he opposed our current foreign policy, and he opposed the stripping of our civil liberties in the Patriot Act. Almost in disbelief I came to see, for the first time in my life, someone who I could actually believe in. A candidate who could actually represent me. And one that I knew I could vote for in good conscience.

 

I have never felt this way in my life, nor have I ever flocked to a message board to write letters like I've written. But there is something inside me. Something that senses a greater truth than what we've seen before. A truth that is more than the election, or a candidate, or our nation. It is bigger than one man, and for as much as I wish there were others speaking with his tongue, there is only one who does. 

 

So to those who come to this forum, Catholics with an interest in politics, please spend but a moment with a man the likes of which I have never seen before, and fear may never see again. My only hope is that your eyes will see, maybe in disbelief and shock at first as I did, a man who's principals seem as foreign to politics as troops in Iraq. His name is Ron Paul, and I pray you will come to know him as I do.

 

God Bless,

NT

 

 

 

Posted 8 months ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Hmmm - But, NT, Ron Paul has been a Wash.D.C. insider for thirty years. What does his record, particularly of initiatives, show? His campaign's silence on these is an ominous thing, in this crucial election cycle. To me, it seems that his party and Congressional colleagues merely treated him as some rather lame pesky gnat of an entity to be brushed and shooed away. How would his Presidency ring any better for him and for us? Now, Ron Paul could be the pick of the litter - and he suffers from the company with whom he is more or less involuntarily mixed. Then again, what I have seen and heard so far - and he has a vocal cadre in MySpace, including 'Friends' I have there, whom I encounter, too - I do not find compelling. And, the 'just war' thing - even the Vatican knows that it must depend upon real commanders-in-chief to make the distinctions; "render unto Caesar . . ." as it were. Against any violent conflict, per se, guidance is all the Papacy can offer. Often, I do get the impression that the Vatican would have cautioned American-British 'talk-talk-talk' in 1776. The Papacy just might have been embarrassed if France and Britain had preempted Hitler; and, for all I know, were instrumental in advising and applauding Chamberlain's mistaken gamble - and, selling out the Czech people - delving into secular policies as mistakenly as did Chamberlain. Does anyone know of any history that reflects the Vatican's words and actions in the runs-up to July, 1776, with Lexington Green and Concord Old North Bridge; and/or September, 1939, and Poland? But, too, NT, I will continue to take my bearings from Church, and from Declaration and Constitution, readying for my state primary and thence the general 2008 election. For, you see, I trust the Spirit, our American founders and myself before I trust any other. Remember, I love you, too . In our delighted glory in our Infant King, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 8 months ago #
internate - Inactive

wljewell, thanks for the reply. First of all, Ron Paul is no more an insider than most. In fact, he was probably the only one who left politics after being in it for a number of years to go back to his private practice of being a doctor. 

 

As far as your comment about his initiatives in congress, I would implore you to investigate his record. While he may not have been able to convince a backwards congress to vote for his bills, which are light years ahead of where this congress can even fathom, that does not mean that he did not try. What's more, he never once voted for anything that was not given to us in the Constitution. I dare you to find a candidate with a half as much character.

 

Your third comment, which basically ammounts to 'guilty by association' is weak at best. By that very arguement we would have to look at the character of all of his supporters and not the few that seem to get the attention of the media. What's more, being fringe means you understand the need for liberty much more than those who are more sheep than people. 

 

And as far as just war, I'm not sure what your point is, other than we shouldn't always follow it. War eithics are an entire debate in and of themselves, but for the sake of this arguement might I remind us that the war in Iraq, if we can truly call it that, was far outside the lines of a 'Just War' as understood by even a lay theologian, much less the Holy Father himself. Ron Paul is the only candidate, Democrat or Republican, calling for a full pull-out. My conscience can rest with him as our chief.

 

In any case, I believe that freedom is popular. More popular than any politician kissing babies. More popular than any man can swagger. And more popular than any poll can measure. We are reaching a turning point in this country, and only one man is actually looking ahead.

 

I believe that man is Ron Paul.

 

God Bless,

NT 

Posted 8 months ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Warren,

There is much debate about the role of Pious the XII in regards to Nazi Germany. I would suggest googling The Vatican and World War II but be ready for much to "sift" through.

I believe that at the time the world felt that our venerable brother in Christ, ironically enough, did not speak out boldly enough. However, as time and inquiry often brings to light that which was hidden, he is being looked at quite differently under the scrutiny of Jew, pagan and Christian alike.

In Christ, 

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 8 months ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

NT,

Permit to say that the war in Iraq is over and has been for some time now. What is happening now, is the inevitable task and responsibilty that America fulfills to a fault after liberating a people from tyranny, oppression and death-occupation in order to restore freedom.

I understand that there are many who disagree with the actions of our country and would deny any "just"ice in our resolve due to the lack of WMD's. I can't help but feel that the men, women and children that cried out for relief saw the answer to their prayers in the form of the men, women and children of our country providing armed forces, humanitarian relief and prayers.

I would also like to remind you that Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI never decalred the war as an unjust war. They, thankfully, urged and prayed constantly for a resolution using peaceful means as they understand the only victory in death is to he whom enjoys the mercy of God.

In Christ,

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 8 months ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . It has not been appropriate for the Vatican to pronounce 'just' or not on any war once they established that it is an area more 'rendered to Caesar' than many think it ought to be. But, Popes are no more 'of this world' (at least, since surrendering the Papal States) than their King, Founder and Access to His Spirit. Removing the 'candidacy' issue from here, and since I have little more to add to the Constitution discussion as it is going . . . go to our Politics topic - Response to "Alright, so who do we vote for???" - Remember, I love you, too . In our delighted glory in our Infant King, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 8 months ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Warren,

Allow me to recommend a great book that should add to your collection nicely and for only a few denari...

Papal Encyclicals In Their Historical Context from Peter to John XXIII. If it does not provide some insight into what the Vatican "put out" during key points in history, it will at least give you a source for "important" encyclicals promulgated throughout Church history.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/102-1446744-1716152?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Papal+encyclicals+in+the+historical+context&x=16&y=18

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 8 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

I got the one for a penny (plus shipping)!!!

Thanks for the recommend, David.  This looks like a good one!

Posted 8 months ago #
David T Garrison - Inactive

Although I would like to have the $50 hardcover, I bought one for 4 denari. It came from a book distributor via a library. Not in pristine condition, but the contents were what I was after. I've just started to dig in. Enjoy!

In Christ,

Remember, the Sun is always shining!

Posted 8 months ago #

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