Catholic Exchange Forums » Politics

Federal reforms

(12 posts)

pouliot - Member
It seems as if the legislative bodies of the United States and some other countries of the "West" as well, have strayed into a regime wherein highly funded, vocal interest groups now determine the agenda. In the United States it appears as if the Federal funds can be garnered by any group who can excite the "mob" to a sufficient fever pitch. The Congress responds to the mob by appropriating tax dollars to quixotic activity (reducing CO2 emissions; embryonic stem-cell experiments; etc.) depending on the current fad. The fads are not always based on good science and sometimes (as is the case in the two instances cited) actually surpress scientific evidence that would mitigate against the expenditures entertained by the legislators. What changes might be effective to correct this state of affairs? Here are some that have been suggested to me (all of which seem to necessitate Constitutional change):
  1. term limits accompanied by strict limitations on campaign activities and spending
  2. restoration of the selection of US Senators to the State legislatures
  3. curtailment of Congressional authority
  4. elimination of the seniority system as used in the legislatures
  5. limitation of jurisdiction on the Federal Court system, even including the Supreme Court (e.g. allow the Federal Courts only the right to remand issues to the legislature, not to direct remedial steps)
  6. return to reliance entirely on privately operated education
  7. restore suffrage to its original concept (land-owning males, of at least 21 years)
  8. elimination of the citizenship-right based on birth on US territory
  9. allow tax-payers to "target" the tax they pay to Governmen t branches specified by the tax-payer(e.g. you could direct that none of your tax dollars be spent on defense, or none of your tax dollars be spent on the Dept. of Agriculture)
Posted 1 year ago #
KenB - Member

In my opinion this seems to be a character issue more than anything else.  People always say it's the "special interest groups", but the fact of the matter is those groups are made up of our fellow citizens.

I think that unless and until we all get over the idea that it is possible and/or proper to use the legislative process to effectively "vote money to ourselves", very few of your suggestions will make much difference.

Obviously the government needs to spend money on many things, and sometimes on a subsidy to one group or another.  However unless it is a case of outright charity for the down-and-out, in deciding to grant a subsidy, responsible senators and representatives should give great consideration to whether or not the proposed subsidy will benefit the whole nation, or more to the point, if not granting said subsidy would somehow cause sufficient problems for the nation (as a whole) to justify the subsidy.

There is no need to cite charitable examples; they are obvious enough.  However consider for example, a wheat subsidy due to drought or some other disaster.  If the wheat farmers are truly going broke, there is the reason of charity of course, but also if one looks at the ripple effects of a crash in the wheat sector, effects on other business of bankrupcies, and unpaid debt, unstable and/or skyrocketing prices, etc., it is sometimes justifiable to grant the susbsidy because in adddition to the wheat farmer having problems, not granting the subsidy would financial cause problems for city dwellers and others in the nation. 

Another example is when the government considered subsidizing the super sonic transport airplane back in the late 1960's (the SST).  I was too young to recall the details, but the upshot is that while there was much discussion of course, in the end the senators realized the SST did not present enough of a benefit to the total nation to justify everybody paying a higher tax.  They simply could not justify subsidizing a very expensive airplane that only a select few people in the country would be able to afford to use. 

There are other worthy examples of the government using public money to fund reasonable subsidies, but there are far too many examples of groups of people who simply gain enough special interest in Washington to get their pet or selfish deal passed, without regard to the good of the rest of the nation.  In those cases - which to be sure, are too numerous - the people involved have only their own interest in mind, and short of them changing their minds, because we have a representative form of government filled with fallible human beings, I doubt if there is much that "new rules" can accomplish.

In my mind - and I am not at all perfect, so please do not misunderstand - the problem you cite points out a certain selfishness that we as a people seem to have attained.  I think part of this sort of "me first" attitude can probably be traced to a decline in the belief and excersize of religion, which in turn led to our losing some family values, and lowering our standards all around.

Posted 1 year ago #

pouliot,

I agree with #1 & think it can be done and should be done.

I agree with # 9 but don't know if it is possible to enforce.  How could itr be shown that certain amounts did or didn't go where directed?

# 7 seems absurd and to give too much power to the old and rich.

I am not so sure what you mean by #8.Undecided

 

KenB,

I can't agree more with your statement of: "I think part of this sort of "me first" attitude can probably be traced to a decline in the belief and excersize of religion, which in turn led to our losing some family values, and lowering our standards all around."

And, I say that it will return, because God is the only thing we can truly rest in.  People will return as they see the follies we have come to.

GK - God is good!

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: gk RE:
"How could it be shown that certain amounts did or didn't go where directed?"
The GAO seems to do a fair job of keeping track of what is spent where.  Perhaps they could be assisted by the DCAA.  I'm not sure how much auditing would need to be done.  Perhaps a sampling approach would suffice. 
"# 7 seems absurd and to give too much power to the old and rich.;"
(#7 was to limit voting rights to land-owning males) OK, add "who are paying taxes"  The problem moderns have with this concept is that they have bought into the concept of equal rights being founded in equality of suffrage.  We are ok with minors not having the right to vote and having circumscribed rights but we seem to think that once of age, everyone has an equal ability to discern what the government's actions should be.  Yet, the reply to the negative implications of this line of reasoning is often given that the large numbers of voters exercising the privilege eliminates the influence of the ignorant, and plain stupid.  It should be obvious that few people would agree that the results are always "right."  We have had enough contentious elections to put paid to that idea.  In part this exhaltation of "equal representation" arises from a failure to understand the concept of "representation" in government in the first place.  At the time of the US Revolution, the argument against the "no taxation without representation" principle was that there were enough enfranchised citizens of the empire that whether one had the vote or not, taxation levels would be limited by those voting citizens who were subjected to taxes.  The British Government made the error of applying a tax to the colonists which was seen as aimed precisely at the segment of the population that didn't have a vote.  Although this perspective wasn't 100% true it was close enough to being true that a vocal minorioty (the revolutionary-minded among the American colonists) were able to build it into one of the justifications of revolt.&nbs[; It is telling that the Declaration of Independence enumerates other justifications as if to betray that the taxation-representation iniquity wasn't in itself adequate justification.  The counter argument is more valid than history would admit.  And its validity actually extends to a rationale for allowing only those most concerned with the overall health of the country to select the government.  In its original formulation this meant the farming segment of society.  And in farming, it was overwhelmingly males who made the decisions regarding the very risky business of timing planting and harvesting.  Working from that basic premise I suppose there is no reason not to extend the franchise to those who have a vested interest in the country's well-being.  Given the topic here, it would probably be more appropriate to open a separate topic to discuss what this might mean.  In any case, I think "absurd" is a little too strong. 
"I am not so sure what you mean by #8."
Currently if an illegal alien enters the US and delivers a baby on US soil, that baby has a right to US citizenship.  Aliens actually cross the border to make that happen and then later apply for citizenship to "re-unite" the family.
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
RE: Reform idea What about removing the party affiliation identification on ballots.  Then at least a voter might have to learn who is running for what party instead of just votign for someone becasue they are Republican or Democratic.
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Washington was inaugurated, and some fool in the audience yelled "Time for reform!" Each voter/citizen/person must find God in his person and spirit, guiding his will and mind, or no reform is worth the paper its printed on. Tinkering with materialist and secular details has accomplished nothing for well over a century. The voters just keep sending the likes of Sen. Byrd back to Washington. And, I have said before - John Kerry and George W. Bush (and Bob Byrd) have more in common with each other than with any one of us 'po' voters'. Party affiliation is nearly meaningless - God, His will for me and the issues are of full meaning. Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
What about proportional voting? (I think that's what it's called.) 10 candidates: everyone gets 10 votes For or Against any candidate. So if there is someone I abhor, I vote 10 votes against them and do not cast any against or for any other.
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
chaletart - Inactive
How can one vote for a lesser of two evils? How can we  justify voting at all? I think that pouliots idea of literally voting against is great! Cuz I pretty much abhor all who run!
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . I also think that a ballot entry for 'Let's leave the office empty for one term and see what happens' might be nice. You might call it the 'closet anarchist party' entry - not of true anarchy, mind you, just trying to test the waters of reducing politicians and associated bureaucrats to a sort of 'you just might not 'serve'' status. That I had to satirically highlight 'serve' demonstrates part of the problem. Maybe, too, a ballot slot for 'whoever is willing to serve by paying for the position' so that we really know what we're getting. Whoever so wins by this choice has to pay the price of a package of gum for every voting constituent, collected and set aside to prosecute the 'winner' as needed. That would be the 'cautious simony party' slot. Also, every elected office holder above a certain level in every arena would have to modify his or her wardrobe to put a large bulls eye target on their backs to remind just why the Second Amendment leaves the voters armed. Every time they dress for 'work' - yet another folly - the politician is reminded of potential instant, summary impeachment by citizen action. I had more practical ideas - contra my acid sarcasm above - but I haven't found the Word doc yet. Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: P.S.
RE: «I also think that a ballot entry for 'Let's leave the office empty for one term and see what happens' might be nice.»
That's good!  I really like that idea.  The salary would have to be sequestered for some worthy cause too.  Nationally it would be reduce the debt.  Locally it might be to fund libraries or hospitals, or be directed as aid to orphans, or some such endeavor.

Hope you find your word doc soon.

Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Okay - here goes - - - For great part, we simply must realize about special interest groups that they are presumed to be lobbyists, to be guided by lobbyist limitations. It hurts none to presume that all lobbyists come from points of selfishness, greed, and presumptuous arrogance. We should expect lobbyists to prove not merely need and ‘compassion’ but actual need for compassion. We should expect that they provide ‘national and relevant locale environmental impact’ statement: defining how their propositions are of general interest and welfare and to be of general improvement; demonstrating how support of the special interest will not be disproportionate burden upon other community(-ies) for the benefit of ‘their’ community. They should be expected to document options studied and the best available alternative. They should made to anticipate debate and rebuttal of all claims, mediation of recognized conflicts and with formal and resolved loss of credibility and possible loss of lobbying standing where found fraudulent. Of lobbyists’ ‘goodies’, there must be Congressional and bureaucratic offices of authoritative oversight and review for special-interest offers by, requests of and bequests to government personnel. This may seem to burden ‘grass-roots’ groups, but if we do not burden them, we will be unlikely to burden anyone. We should form two federal Committees of One Hundred voters. These committees would be blind-fold drawn from a pool of a few hundred from each state – who so volunteer – every member to serve a six-month stint, with staggered roll-over and new selections of twenty-five members ever quarter. This permits continuity in such community service in the overall committee. Bywords for these committees – diligent, relentless, and relentlessly open and above-board. Maybe, too, there should be state initiatives to petition to dissolve a sitting committee(s) for complete re-drawing. The primary committee would read legislation for comprehension without needing a lawyer, and comprehensiveness of defining nuances of compliance and bureaucratic enforcement. This would entail the primary committee having a large staff to help review tendered legislation. The second committee would serve as citizen ombudsmen; effectively, government paid lobbyists for ordinary citizens. Many things can fall out of these committees, such as less insidious direction of education by the federal government, less power to such as federal-employee unions, etc. The sheer weight of laws would decrease for having to pass legislation through the primary committee. Give the President line-item veto power in all cases. Repeal McCain-Feingold for legislation merely requiring all contributions be publicly recorded for review of all parties; if a party(-ies) uses another’s information for publication, all parties’ lists will be published at the same time at the expense of the initiator(s) of publication; any third-party (e.g., MSM) uses any party’s list, all parties within the scope of the cause for the list (e.g., campaign for a given office) will be similarly published, all at the expense of the third party. There would be definitions of limits such as to group aggregation limits; e.g., ‘2,456 contributors of $101-$500’; all publication list largest contributions and contributors’ identities first; plus, ‘institutional’ contributors note their three primary sources of funds, and have responsible individuals listed to the level of one individual for every ten thousand dollars contributed. Fraud by misrepresentation and/or omission will be prosecuted with defined penalties, including for contributors restrictions of contributions by individuals-responsible for a certain number of years; any and all costs to whistle-blowers about fraud will be doubly matched as reward for their actions, except where judicial authorities authorize greater rewards from out of penalties paid. Term limits – two consecutive sessions, then the politician cannot run for any office again for one more consecutive session – making politics a difficult field in which to make one’s career. Staggered electoral months – over four to six months (June through November), the first Tuesday is election day from most-local earliest in June to most-national offices in November. This supports voters really getting into knowing who is running for what. Rather than curtailment of Congressional authority, which is most diluted and most representative, extend Congressional roles to counter activist judiciary (by amendment, if necessary) and prescribe bureaucratic procedures. Expand the Senate to two hundred four – four for each state and four at-large for D.C. and our territories. Expand the House to eight seats for every one now (3,480 total), giving D.C. and territories proportional representation, giving voters closer representation, and giving many more voices to issues. The ‘seniority’ method of chairing committees, etc., has the advantage of letting us know who is in line for a given position. No other method is really less or more arbitrary, anyway. The voters should be expected to take a test each electoral year, a month before any election day, that demonstrates that they know who are the sitting President and Vice-president, who is Speaker of the House; who is their governor, who are their federal senators and state equivalent(s), who are their federal representative and state equivalent, etc. Additionally, there can be a list of a few hundred questions that might appear about the Constitution of the United States of America. This list, of course, is a study guide. There should be a ‘100%’ section – all right or no voting card – and a ‘75%’ section. I prefer ‘owning the knowledge to vote’ to ‘owning the financial stake’. This ballot test can be written and administered by the two Committees of One Hundred’. A citizen is one who has a recognized permanent right to be here – not just ‘born here’. How the government deals with legislation, ‘pork’, priorities, etc., will be addressed by the two Committees of One Hundred voters. Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
greenknight - Inactive

1. Good idea.

 

2. I'd have to read the Federalist papers to get the full reason for why it was like that origionaly.  Still, how would it stop corruption and immorality?

 

3.Too vague.  In all, bad idea.  

 

4. Again, helps how?

 

5. ???

 

6. Good idea

 

7. Surprised BAD IDEA!!! Really bad!  Are you serious?  Take the vote away from women, away from the poor?  Yell  You've got to be kidding!  Does anyone else see what's wrong here?

 

8. Now you want to take away the rights of children, the right of citizens to have their own kids citizens as well?  You would make my kids illegal aliens?  This has nothing to do with stem cell research or special intrest groups.  It's just another random bad idea. 

 

9. Bad.  It takes the Power of the Purse away from Congress.  It decentralizes the allocation of funds, which is essential for the government to function at all.  You might as well get rid of Congress all together.   

Posted 1 year ago #

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Rock Solid with Mark Shea: April 14, 2008 - Confirmation: Piety and Knowledge