Catholic Exchange Forums » Politics

Islam and the violent jihad

(25 posts)

pouliot - Member
The postings I intend to make here concern an issue that arose in the "Faith and Life" forum as to the comparative nature of Islam and Catholicism.  However, rather than begin the thread in that forum, I thought it might better be suited to the category of "politics" as it concerns not so much "Faith" as Catholics know it but rather is intended to describe "faith" as understood by the theocracy that is Islam. ][ Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
Evidence for the fact of the Islamic religion in the service of violence The following is based on an article in the opinion pages of The Washington Times for 15 February 2007 entitled «School for jihadism.» The article references a study completed by the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace which examined 115 textbooks and teacher's guides.  The article is well worth the effort of locating it and reading it carefully.  The abstraction represented by these notes does not due justice to the work of the author, Nir Boms, who is vice president of the Center for Freedom in the Middle East.  Accordingly, I encourage all to get a copy of the article and read it in its entirety. _____________________________________________________________   According to the article, the textbooks task the student with a religious mission of fighting "evil" until its final eradication, or until the "good" camp (of the jihadists), is wiped out. Here is a quote from an eleventh-grade textbook: "Either we shake one another's hand in joy at the victory of Islam in the world, or all of us will turn to eternal life and martyrdom.  In both cases, victory and success are ours." The "evil" camp embraces the entire West under the leadership of the United States along with any of its allies.  Synonyms for the evil camp include: "The Oppressors" and "The Arrogant Ones." The United States is awarded the sobriquet: "The Great Satan." (No surprise there, of course.) This next quote is from a seventh-grade textbook: "Now, in order to continue the Islamic Revolution it is our duty to continue with all power our revolt against the Arrogant Ones and the Oppressors, and not cease until all Islam's commandments and the spread of the redeeming message of 'there is no God except Allah' are realized in the whole world." This war is known as the "Initiative Jihad" [perhaps Mr. Boms meant "'initial"].  It is further explained in another eight-grade textbook. Here is a quote from the article which sets the background succinctly: The Koran is used while teaching military drills and the use of weapons and explosives in a course titled "defense readiness" which is taught starting in the eight-grade. "Textbooks for this course include warnings against imminent attacks by the enemies, which assist in creating a siege mentality among the students." The article continues to "connect the dots": "The books also indoctrinate students to prepare for war by encouraging martyrdom.  The spirit of martyrdom-seeking is nurtured by various means - with verses from the Koran, sayings by Shi'ite imams, with stories and poems that glorify past and present martyrs and with martyrs' wills that are read in class and posted on walls.  The motif of the martyrs' blood and its symbol - the red tulip - are prominent features of the textbooks, and are expressed both verbally and through illustrations. " In these textbooks then, can be seen a fusing of religion and war and martyrdom, the preferred weapon against innocent and combatant alike.  In the event it is necesasry to remind the reader, the religion in use here is not Christianity but Islam.
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Have at any time since Muhammad arose in the sixth century we been at true peace - toleration, understanding, etc. - with Muslimism? Have we not had 'peace' due mainly to their severe isolationism from our culture? Hasn't 'peace' really been a sort of stiff leeway due to mutual ignorance, which up until now was ignorance both sides favored? And, from my reading, I can find no Western historian, commentator, etc., who has ever anticipated 'harmony' between the Judeao-Christian and Muslim cultures. As well, our most recent historians, etc., are more alarmed about Muslimism than ever. And, as I urge us all to pray for God's will for peace, why can I think to believe and have strong suspicion that there are many Muslim prayers being lifted for the opposite condition - jihad war unto a death in actuality or living death of Muslim hegemony? Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
KenB - Member

While it is definitely true that radical (some say they are maniacal fascists) Muslims are intent on causing all sorts of trouble and seem to want to drag us all over a cliff into a pit of madness, I think pope Benedict is correct in at least trying to establish a real, honest, and rational dialogue with the more reasonable Muslims.

I do not know how far he will get with this dialogue, but I give him credit for trying, and pray for his success.

I know it is not a free ride or anything like that, but I am always thankful to have been born Roman Catholic, and not Muslim - or anything else for that matter. 

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: KenB Greeting.
"I do not know how far he will get with this dialogue, but I give him credit for trying, and pray for his success."
As we must all pray for the success of Christ's call.
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Have you noticed that Benny 16 is more or less the opposite of what most thought he would be? He is no fiery and heavy-swinging Pope. He seems to want to take whom he has problems with and hold them close, even affectionately close - like the old saw - 'Hold your friends close and your enemies closer'. He is all this 'peace and love' word and action - what a guy! He can be as a lamb, that how he might have been a wolf is steadily lost in how graciously gentle (and profoundly persuasive) he is. IF - BIG IF - he gets a fruitful dialogue going with the Muslims, he will be as big as his predecessor in the eyes of the world. Imagine if at B16's urgent request, in laying out Turkey's interest in joining the European Union, the premier of that secular-if-Muslim nation chided the Europeans: "I cannot hope to give my all to Turkey and this union without my following in the most peace-loving ways of the Prophet. Do not, please, fail to embrace your own roots in Christendom." Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

Call it for what it really is. 

These so called religious people are not really religious they put on the cloak using a religion based on the teachings of just a man to use it for a cause. (much like the Sanhedrin)

Jesus teaches us that the flesh profits nothing, ie, lusts of the flesh, lusts of the eyes, the pride of life.  These come about as a result of Greed and Avarice. (we shall know them by their fruit)

Hence these so called religious who are really murders and thieves, tell their unsuspecting yet zealous disciples that their god has 100 virgins prepared for them in heaven. (Jesus tells us no marrying in Heaven, we will be like the Angels)

Satan prods on the zeal of life according to the flesh.  Which are, lust of the flesh- a virgin who has not been humbled; lust of the eyes- beautiful virgins; pride of life, glory for a cause.

The funny part of about this is the so called Islamic radicals are being used themselves.  The truth will always be exposed, as Jesus said nothing remains covered.  For all will be exposed.  This is God speaking not man.  Man is always naked before God, the ungodly will be exposed.  The fight is between the Church and Satan, the saints, with the faithful, with God and the Angels are fighting the pawns satan, those unto everlasting Glory and those unto everlasting damnation.  Pauls tells us that we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers, spiritual wickedness in High Places.  Thus we must think in terms of strategy as like unto a chess board.  Black and White pieces.  No inbetween.  By the actions of man they are either a distraction or a pointer, God always directs us if we stay to our true north.  Satan is the Great deciever, he casts illusions.  Know the spirits at work as the Apostles have told us in our Teachings in the Bible, Test the spirits whether they be of God.  For there are many Anti-Christs in this world. 

God bless.

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Needs-A-Saint RE:
"The truth will always be exposed, as Jesus said nothing remains covered. For all will be exposed. This is God speaking not man. Man is always naked before God, the ungodly will be exposed. The fight is between the Church and Satan, the saints, with the faithful, with God and the Angels are fighting the pawns satan, those unto everlasting Glory and those unto everlasting damnation. "
Do mortals ahve a role in this battle?  What is it?  Who will take the Gospel to these people?  Where is our modern day St Francis?
Regards,
Old Sigma
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

I believe that God through the Virgin will do so and has been doing so for centuries.  Each generation has new a challenge.  I recall some place over near or in India a shrine to the Blessed Mother where pilgrims of all faiths(mostly non-christians) have been going for quite sometime.  The Blessed Mother seems to be appearing there or because of great inner peace, miracles and such.  Medjugorje, Fatima, Lourdes, Places in Russia, Japan, America, Egypt and countless numerous places.  I believe Just as she brought Jesus to the Jews, the world, She will bring us to Jesus again.  What does this mean?  I'm not talking about prayer, I'm talking about the actual Jesus. 

The Virgin my friend!  She is the answer! 

If I recall the Apocalypse says "and the saints" so I believe at some point we will see many saints not just one.  A remnant also is spoken of, I personally do not know how many are included in this remnant. 

Also over the years there have been some here and there mystics who have made some pretty serious wages of the Pope and many of the faithful with a small amount left, "remnant", can't say one way or the other because I personally don't know them and they have some gift.  Yet I can atest to this fact some of their claims have gone by unanswered.  So I regard their words with a grain of salt. Any words posted here or anywhere.  Even if I were hearing from God and He told me to tell you to eat grass everyday to heal your stomach illness, it would be up to you to decide. 

So we can't be like the old Jews of the Gospel looking for a sign, because no sign will be given it.  Therefore Jesus told us watch and pray.  Not looking for sign. Observe.  look up for your redempton draweth nigh.

He told us in Gospel of Matthew what the signs would be in Matthew 24:37 And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

We read in Genesis that man was in sin and evil imaginations before the Great Deluge! So great that God wiped all life except for those who entered into the ARK!  Who is the Ark in our times? The Virgin!

Go to the VIRGIN!

God Bless

Posted 1 year ago #
SR LN - Inactive
Liked your comments,needasaint ! Our Mother Mary is telling us to Fast and Pray @ this present moment...She is telling us that the Mass and Eucharistic Adoration are powerful weapons. We are having a hard time in my local getting our act together. Come Lord Jesus, through the intercession of your Mom ... This should be our Bishops first priority. John Paul The Great had it right ( Totus Tuus ). Pope Benedict 16th is behind him all the way.
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

TO SR LN,

Thanks.

A few more Ark comparisons:

Ark of God made of flesh, covered with Gold, reflects the Greater light, saves lives according to Gods Mercy, Compassion and Love.  Graces.

Ark of the Covenant made of Gold and materials, reflects the Greater light, destroyed evil according to Gods judgements.  To remit sin sprinkling of animal blood.

Ark of Noah, made of gopher wood, pitch, saved mankind and animals. Water flooded earth.  Water Baptism, cleanses sin.  God cleared the filth of sin. 

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Need-A-Saint

Do you suppose that if Mary appeared to some young Muslim children they would survive for very long if they told anyone?

Regards,
Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & amateur whatever)
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

don't know Pouliot.  

what is death of the flesh? it is ceasing to exist among the flesh.  Something we have to detach from in this existence someday, "when" is different for each individual. If we continually live after the flesh we want to keep living in this world.  When asked the question: "do you want to survive?", it is like a trick question that the devil throws in your face.  The question God asks anyone: "do you want to live forever?" Only God knows if that child believes. 

Peace be with you

Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Mary, revered by Muslims would be okay - Delivering a message about her Son as Son of God and Son of Man would find little audience among them. Remember, I love you, too Through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: Need-A-Saint
RE: "don't know Pouliot. what is death of the flesh?..."
The objective in this thread is to compare the two religions.  I thought the original question about how Muslim children might be treated if they reported a characteristically Christian vision would illuminate a difference and so tend to resolve the question of Islam being a religion of peace.
Regards,
Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & amateur whatever)
Posted 1 year ago #
needasaint - Inactive

Pouliot I only answered your question.

To: Need-A-Saint

Do you suppose that if Mary appeared to some young Muslim children they would survive for very long if they told anyone?

 

secondly:

The objective in this thread is to compare the two religions.  I thought the original question about how Muslim children might be treated if they reported a characteristically Christian vision would illuminate a difference and so tend to resolve the question of Islam being a religion of peace.

 

Paul writes in Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

Peace be with you

 

Posted 1 year ago #
grumpybumpas - Member

(New kid on the block,just waiving a hand.)

 

  Islam is simply christianity revisited.

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: GrumpyBumpas
RE: "Islam is simply Christianity revisited."
An unsubstantiated assertion, that.  Care to provide examples, instances?

Oh & BTW, you really need to do something about that hand.  (Must be your left hand, right?)

Regards,
Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & generally inveterate amateur)
Posted 1 year ago #
bhokuto - Member

pouliot why do you care about the hand? it's a ploy.

yes, grumpy, how is it that you mix everything into one pot?

The paths are distinctive. 

Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

Grumpy,

Save the bumper sticker critiques and one-line shockers for junior high school.  You are better than that.

Posted 1 year ago #

I always say, if you are going to have a jihad, it might as well be violent.  I think Islam will either straighten itself out or it will die by the sword.

Even Peter wanted to fight with the sword in the beginning.  I'll pray that Islam stops being so violent and sees the truth of Christ on the cross.

 

GK - God is good!

Posted 1 year ago #
pouliot - Member
To: GK (Chesterton??)
RE: "pray that Islam stops being so violent and sees the truth of Christ on the cross."
I'll settle for the result in part one of your prayer.  I've tried to say a rosary every morning for an intention like that one.  Perhaps a casual reader will join in...?
Regards,
Old Sigma (Cradle Catholic & generally inveterate amateur)
Posted 1 year ago #
grumpybumpas - Member

(New kid on the block,just waiving a hand.)

 

 I believe that the Arab world is about two thousand years behind the rest of humanity in there social responcibilities and will not give up there apetite for violence and revenge in our life time.

Posted 1 year ago #
Protect the Rock - Moderator

Cheer up, grumpy!

 

Do you not know that Jesus Christ has redeemed the world? Even a culture with a violent tendency which we have a hard time understanding is not beyond the power of Christ. Believe in the good news!  

 

“Desolation and discouragement is of the devil. Ours is a Church of hope." ~St Ignatius of Loyola
Posted 1 year ago #
wljewell - Member
God loves you . Yeah, Grump - they can kill me but they can't keep me out of heaven. (They try to eat me my guardian angel will sic indigestion on 'em.) Besides, I think that the Muslim extremists are going to cause so much violence among Muslims, they will end up killing themselves off - dying by the sword, as GK notes. Remember, I love you, too Reminding that we are all on the same side - His, Pristinus Sapienter (wljewell @catholicexchange.com or ... yahoo.com)
Posted 1 year ago #

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