It's either George Bush, global warming, or SUVs.

KIDDING

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"The big print giveth, and the fine print taketh away." -Bishop Fulton Sheen

Noel,

I think it may have been about this time last year that you were asking the same.  All I know is...from now until the end of the school year, those with kids in schools are rather over-loaded.  Combine that with the fact that we just celebrated Easter, the internet may not be first on people's minds.  Or maybe it's just me.

Loretta

thank you for your email.

In retirement I am very busy and rarely have time to send posts to CE.

However I was a bit freer over Easter.

Please do not let anyone else know, but I have a few concerns which I address from time to time.

One of my concerns is that few post here. At present I would like to hear more opinions here in this roundtable. So I welcome various new  contributors.

Another of my permanent concerns is about the love of God (subjective rather than objective, ie the love He has rather than our love for him), hell and sin.

About these topics, really all we can do, as we have agreed, is hope in God's mercy.

Is it a mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday with no valid excuse? Is contraception a mortal sin? Will all those Catholics who do not attend Mass or practise contraception go to hell?

Another worry is the future of our Church.

What will the Church be like in a few years?

Our Archbishop is great. He admits that in some parishes in the archdiocese Mass attebdance is about 1%.  He considers Ireland is now mission country.  Next year every Catholic home will be visited.  His concern focuses on those who have drifted from the Church and those who have been hurt by the Church.

On Good Friday at the serevice for children in the Church I go to the youngest person there was about 55 and the average age was almost 70.  

Once agian Loretta, thank you for your light monitoring of this roundtable. 

You allow frank discussion, but when things appear to be getting out of hand you skillfully restore calm.

You have also very patiently replied to my concerns  a number of times.

God bless,


NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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Noel,

My heart goes out to you!  I love to see new contributors here, too.

One question you ask was :

Is it a mortal sin to miss Mass on Sunday with no valid excuse? Is contraception a mortal sin? Will all those Catholics who do not attend Mass or practise contraception go to hell?

My first answer is (and I say this with gentleness and love) - It's none of your darn business!

What I mean is - the role of judge belongs to Our Lord and not to us.  So we really should never concern ourselves over "who is going to Hell?"  What we should concern ourselves with is "Let's get everyone into Heaven."  The actions we take depend on the premise we start with. 

As for "Will they go to Hell?" the only thing we know for certain is:

If one dies with a mortal sin on their soul (i.e...unrepented), they have chosen eternal damnation.  So what is a mortal sin?

For a sin to be of a mortal nature, all 3 of the following conditions must be met:

1) Is the object of sin of grave matter?

2) Was the sin committed with full knowledge?

3) Was the sin committed with deliberate consent?

The list you gave as examples:  Missing Mass with no valid reason and contraception are definitely of grave matter.  But that is only 1 of the 3 necessary criteria.  These can be objectively known as grave matter without making a judgement on a person's soul.

However, the other 2 criteria are criteria that only the person and God truly know the answer to.  That's why we cannot look at a person or their actions and know whether or not they are in a state of mortal sin.  Priests and bishops are given the right and duty to make such judgements for the sake of the individual's soul (to try to bring them back to the Truths of the faith).  But for you and me...it's not our job.  We're not equipped with the ability to know the hearts and minds of individuals.

Hence, as you said, we rely on the mercy of God...and we stay out of the business of judging.  Instead, we expend all our energies trying to conform ourselves to be more Christ-like and to bring everyone we know and meet along with us to Heaven.

Excellent scriptures, Noel.

In fact, I debated about the sentence I wrote:

However, the other 2 criteria are criteria that only the person and God truly know the answer to.

What I think it really ought to properly read is:

However, the other 2 criteria are criteria that only God truly knows the answer to.

We can so easily deceive our own selves.

We can also so easily be blind to our own selves.

Noel, In psychology there is a common acknowledgement that a person that is guilty of any wrongdoing and refuses to change will encourage others to commit the same wrongdoing. As it applies to others in sin, we are hard pressed to rebuke another when we are guilty of the same sin, of course it is much easier when we have not sinned the same sin or any sin at all. The answer is to free ourselves first from hypocracy and wrongdoing, then when we have recovered into a state of grace, we can help others tempted by the same fault. Does this make sense to you?

King Henry 11 Holy Roman Emporer of Germany, Italy and Switzerland of the 10th Century: Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ and May God Bless Us All!

IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."⁶¹² Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.⁶¹³ To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.⁶¹⁴ Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"⁶¹⁵ and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"⁶¹⁶

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."⁶¹⁷ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."⁶¹⁸

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."⁶¹⁹

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;⁶²⁰ for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":⁶²¹

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.⁶²²

^{I could not find any doctrine in the catechism nor in the Vatican archives which states that we cannot question, "Will they go to Hell?" You are intitled to your opinion although according to Catholic doctrine you are required to state that it is your opinion and not Catholic church teaching or doctrine.}

 ^{Pope Benedict XV1 recently [within the last six months] made this clear in an address to the College of Cardinals, when especially a Catholic makes statements in a public forum which the Catholic Exchange is a public forum, anyone can google this thread on the internet. So Catholic's are mandated to preface their statements with either "opinion" or quoting "church doctrine".}

 King Henry 11 Holy Roman Emporer of Germany, Italy and Switzerland of the 10th Century: Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ and May God Bless Us All!

sainthenry,

You are right when you say that it is irresponsbile and slothful to say we have no business reproaching our brother when he sins.

I do not believe I said that we have no business reproaching our brother when he sins. If I did say that, I was in error and I'm sorry.

I thought I said we have no business judging which of our brothers are going to hell. I thought I said we should pray for their repentence and for God's mercy that they not perish.

My comment about reproach was regarding the comment that you made to lpioch.  It seemed that you were reproaching lpioch, but then what you pasted in your section from the CCC, your post agreed with what she posted earlier.  I found this confusing.

Perhaps I should have said "correct" instead of "reproach"

protect the rock, To clarify what I am trying to say to Ipoch and you is that we are free as Catholic's to ponder the question of who is going to hell according to church doctrine. To give an example, previously bhokuto pondered the question of the condemnation of Judas. Pope Benedict responded to that question in doctrine that we are free to ponder the fate of Judas, we are not allowed to make statement claiming church doctrine as evidence that Judas was condemned to hell. What I made the distinction to was asking the question, "Is he going to hell"? Ipioch stated to Noel, "It's none of your business!" [not referred to Judas but someone else]. My correction to Ipioch is this, that as Catholic's we are free to ponder the question but not free to make a judgement as to whether anyone is going to hell. There is nothing in Catholic doctrine preventing us from pondering the question, "Is someone going to hell" This is a perfectly legitimate question to ponder and we are required by doctrine of the church to make that ponder when we are knowledgeable about the sin of another and furthermore to rebuke our brother when we know he has sinned [of course we pray for their conversion] however, we do not judge the condemnation as imminent, similarly to Catholic politicians who vote for abortion rights, we have no right to judge condemnation as the politician may have reason for voting that way which may be justifiable in confession. There has been much discussion as to the Bishops condemning or excommunicating politicians as they receive Holy Communion which is not immediately condemnable as the politician may have confessed prior to Mass or may have a justifiable reason for voting for abortion rights. The matter is between the Priest or Bishop and the politician at the time of Holy Communion. We are required however to rebuke our brother when he sins and pray for him. It is irresponsible and slothful to turn a deaf ear to sin according to Catholic Catechism which I already previously posted. Also according to Catholic doctrine we are not allowed to make public statements claiming validity according to Catholic doctrine when we state an opinion. I corrected Ipioch concerning the statement, "its none of your business" as an opinion and not found in church doctrine. Does this clarify for you?

King Henry 11 Holy Roman Emporer of Germany, Italy and Switzerland of the 10th Century: Praise to you Lord Jesus Christ and May God Bless Us All!

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