you will know they are my disciples by the love they show for one another - so, yes, we receive the gift of faith, and, as Cleopas and his friend on the road to Emmaus, our hearts burn within us.

both

There, now you have a couple of little Abe Lincolns from me... Remember, the Sun is always shining!

'is simply believing enough' -- Santan has NO DOUBT that God exists yet is not saved, because he does not love him.  So I'd say the answer is no.  You must believe and THEN follow through with loving him, loving him naturally leads to acting on hi will ... as is the case between any two lovers who act to please one another.

It really is that simple and a silly thing for people to fight about.

fishman & MREINWER16

Thank you for your posts.

I was pleased to read them carefully.

Recently we have few contributuoins to this Roundtable.  For a while we were getting about one a day.

I look forward to the contributions to this site, as here we can discuss our faith among friends.

Fishman concludes his post with:

It really is that simple and a silly thing for people to fight about.

In fact it is not a simple problem.  The problem of justification was one of the most fundamental theological differences between Catholics and Reformers.

The topic was hotly discussed by some of the finest minds and sincerest Christians for hundreds of years.  It is only recently that agreements have been worked out.

If one thinks religion/Christianity is important and that our beliefs make a difference then this discusssion is not silly.

Religious wars have been fought and many have been killed due partially to this topic.

Mreiner16 quotes James, as many Catholics have, while Proteatants focused on Paul.

It is mportant to get an the overall view of the Bible. 

I include some quotes from Paul's authentic letters for balance.

 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace ( New Revised Standard Version, Ro 11:6).

I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification? comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing (New Revised Standard Version, Ga 2:21).

Then what becomes of boasting? It is excluded. By what law? By that of works? No, but by the law of faith.  For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the law (New Revised Standard Version, Ro 3:27-28).

God bless,


NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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MREINER16

Thanks  once more for your contributions.

I know it is hard to find time to contribute here.

It is very encouaraging to realize that at present there is so much agreement between Lutherans and Catholics.

I quiote some more from http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_31101999_cath-luth-joint-declaration_en.html5.

The present Joint Declaration has this intention: namely, to show that on the basis of their dialogue the subscribing Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church  are now able to articulate a common understanding of our justification by God's grace through faith in Christ.

14.The Lutheran churches and the Roman Catholic Church have together listened to the good news proclaimed in Holy Scripture. This common listening, together with the theological conversations of recent years, has led to a shared understanding of justification. This encompasses a consensus in the basic truths; the differing explications in particular statements are compatible with it.

15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.

God bless,


NoelFitz.
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In necessariis, unitas; in dubiis, libertas; in omnibus, caritas.
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