Catholic Exchange Forums » Faith and Life

Modesty, sort of Self-Defeating

(8 posts)
  • Started 3 months ago by wljewell
  • Latest reply from fishman

wljewell - Member

I anecdote you.

I go to the library and check out the large-type section. It is right next to the string of ‘Net PCs available. Two young ladies are there. Both have only their faces and hands to view – Muslim girls, now old enough to hide all that ‘seductive distraction’ from I guess endlessly adolescent males.

And, they are as pretty as any two blossomed roses in a garden.

They seem to be discussing what they are trying to do with the PC. I intercede, with a “Mornin’, ladies, can I help in some way?” I have a leg-up with young foreign-born women – I so resemble the beloved Grandpa they left behind, and I am invariably gentlemanly – not too mention too ugly to think that such a young beauty, no matter her birthplace, would be interested except as I remind her of her Grandpa, whose love she earned just by being herself. And, so, you see, I am EveryGrandpa!

They were wondering how to put a Word doc into a web-page entry box. Piece of cake! I showed them, and I was treated with smiles and little head bows. I bowed, myself – Sir Walter Raleigh, without the cape – and took to my bookshelf search. I had done my Boy Scout good-deed for the day.

But, I still can’t get over how very feminine the fully-concealed lady is. If the Muslim world worries over seduction, they do themselves no favor by hiding all but a beautiful face, with those very feminine large dark eyes, and graceful hands. Instinctively, I bowed to their gracious bows. They were two worthy ladies, worthy of any man’s attentive display. And, I even felt less ugly!

Do you think that the modestly dressed and accessorized woman is at once ‘more desirable’ even as ‘truly respectable’?

I remember that my petite little wife, Sharon, preferred attending such as weddings in long, simple gowns. She made them herself, so fitting as if out of her Ladyship’s expensive, extensive wardrobe. Hence, only her head and hands were unadorned with fabric. And, men I did not know would ask me if they could ask her to dance. And, they bowed to both of us, so courtly and respectful. Sharon was an enchanting woman, as if in that hall, any hall, any occasion, she was the very one princess her name (Sharon is from Sarah) means. (And, please hold the old 'Princess and the Ape (or Bear)' quips, to which I have been endlessly subjected.)

She is a great dancer, too, in that she could get me to dance at all well. ‘IS a great dancer’, now getting saints who never tried to get out and love to dance. I am certain that the Holy Spirit breaks in a lot. When you arrive in heaven, you will find that your great parade is led by the Spirit Himself, dancing for pure joy at your salvation, with His cadre of angels.

One gentleman who had danced an imperial Viennese waltz (try to find a modern orchestra that can play one of those) with her dropped her back at our table, as I rose to receive my beloved with honors. The gent leaned in to tell me I was ‘one lucky man’. I corrected him: ‘I am the luckiest man in the world’, to his knowing nod. In her feminine modesty, Sharon was the most becomingly desirable woman I ever knew.

Posted 3 months ago #
fishman - Member

virtue remains more attractive the vice.
The american woman wears oversexualized clothing in part out of the habbit because so many of them use birth control which represses the natural pheramones that make them attractive to men.

Posted 3 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

Fishman

You make an interesting point.

Would you have some references to back up your claim?

Posted 3 months ago #
michaelme - Member

Christopher:

I'm w/ Noel -- I gotta see the study.

In Christ,
Michael

Posted 3 months ago #
wljewell - Member

Noel & Michael,

I, too, remember something of a study that held this - something like this? - to be the case. But, I cannot for the life of me remember where and when I read it. It has to be months and months ago, buried now in more immediate interests such as our interminable election season.

Posted 3 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

I remember (I think?!?) they talked about this on the EWTN program The Abundant Life. But I cannot find anything online regarding it.

Posted 3 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

Fishman

I do not see your reply to my request for information.

I have been trying to find some myself.

I read:

The existence, function, and characterization of human pheromones has historically been a controversial topic, especially over the past ten years. Research has included question and answer surveys, bioassay guided isolation, and physiological characterization of receptive membranes. Much research in human pheromonal activity has been coupled to that of other mammals, such as rats, mice, and pigs...

Current controversy arises not from the question of whether or not these chemicals produce a physiological response in humans, but rather from the defining characteristic of a pheromone to have a significant impact on the sexual behavior of the receiving organism. Because of the complex nature of human behavior, quantitative measurements on actual behavioral changes due to the reception of pheromones have been questionable"(http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_2002/benore.htm).

There seems to be little solid research about the role of pheromones in humans.

Posted 3 months ago #
fishman - Member

well, most of what I have heard and read is theory, not proven fact.
The facts I have been able to actually get a hold of from various sources I considered credible at one time or another are about like this.

1) humans do have and are affected by pheromones. ( this is easily proven by the fact that women living in the same house have their menstrual cylces synchronized. the only known mechanism that can explain that is pheromones).

2) birth control has the effects of trapping a woman hormonal cycle in a state very like PMS by using progesterone to cancel out estrogen in an attempt to prevent ovulation.

3) of course the human hormonal system like all others is design to encourage procreation to fertility. I have a great deal of anecdotal evidence and have read in various pieces of NFP supporting literature that
that the labido of women is depressed equally by PMS and birth control pills and well as this have some effect on men.

4) I have seen some documentaries that quoted studied of the effects of feminine hormones during pregnancy , which seem to be designed to keep her mate around and interested. This is fairly well documented. Thickening of hair, blood to cheecks, clear skin. ( this is responsible for the pregnant glow of popular parlance).

5) these same hormones are active and have the similar but less pronounced effect when a woman is in her fertile cycle.

I believe from that there is a logical conclusion drawn that birth controls pills make women less attractive to men and the fact they compensate by dressing in a more alluring fashion is conjecture and theory based on the above more objective evidence.

Of coarse there is room for debate in all of this. Most of my sources would not be considered by some people particularly non-bias as I tend to watch a lot of EWTN and read NFP literature.

You might start there to look for further actual scientific studies.

sorry if I made my somewhat subjective opinion sound like a more solidly validated scientific fact then it is. I was only making a quick comment.

Posted 3 months ago #

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