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How do you spell out the need for catechesis?

(12 posts)
  • Started 2 months ago by wljewell
  • Latest reply from wljewell

wljewell - Member

The Catholic News Service has some highly disturbing but unfortunately expectable news. Please read:

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0805230.htm

You know, these past few weeks the bishops are suddenly aware (finally awake?) that Catholicism is being pounded into the ropes by - Catholics! One gets the impression that they are somehow surprised.

No matter the age group, this article reflects teachers not teaching - and have maybe forfeited effectiveness in their teaching roles until another generation (of them and the students) yet to come.

And, on top of it, I would have to question just how they stay apprised of what Catholics are thinking in lieu of absent teaching. After all, do these millions of regular Catholics - pace that many are only answering to the name, and not practicing the faith - sound any better informed than Pelosi or Biden? Can 'dissident' cover this as well as 'ill-informed, mal-formed, untrained, ignorant and so betrayed' do?

Posted 2 months ago #
Tarheel - Member

Interesting point. And unfortunately it makes sense and is truthful. And for some reason our wonderful media always seems to find and highlight Catholics that know very little about the faith. I guess they think if elected officials like Biden and Pelosi speak of the faith then it must be true as they are elected and therefore must be smart. And I feel it took with high-profile catholics like Pelosi and Biden to provide our bishops a "wake up call".

As a catechist I have always felt that ignorance of the faith by catholics is the worst enemy. I have never seen a person knowledgeable of the faith falling victim to a protestant conversion. In my limited experience it always seems to be catholics that are not well "versed" in the faith that do convert to protestantism.

Also as a catechist I worry if I'm teaching my students well and correctly. My personal library of Bibles and catholic books is over 50 now and there are a lot more I want to purchase. And I got these so I can learn more about my faith so I can teach it better.

Catechesis begins at home. In-home catechesis is the very foundation we catechists build on in Sunday School and CCD programs. Sadly all too often we have to build the "foundation" too. Weak to non-existent catechesis at home is a "get on my soap box" issue of mine , so I will stop on that subject now.

Catechesis starts at home but does not end with confirmation. Although way too many catholics seem to think it does. Learning about our wonderful faith is a life long process. It is not something we spend an hour at each Sunday. As a convert to the faith I'm shocked at times how little some cradle catholics know about the faith. So it does not surprise me that much when I hear and read what high-profile catholics have spoken about our faith. It does distress me that the media is so lazy that they will not do their own research. I also get mad when the media chooses not to put on knowledgeable catholics in a position to speak the truth. Two reasons why I get my news for catholic news agencies and catholic radio and TV.

Not sure if any of our bishops actually read these posts or not. But if they do, then please remember that sound effective catechesis is necessary to grow in the faith. It is also very encouraging when I see bishops speak out against the Pelosi's and the Biden's of the world to correct and repair the damage they have done.

Tarheel

Posted 2 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

St. Josemaria Escriva taught (and I'm sure he's not the only one) that the greatest enemy of God is ignorance. He wanted each of his children in Opus Dei to have the faith of children and the doctrine of theologians. Maybe that is why, at the June 26th Mass this year, Cardinal O'Malley asked every one of us to actively go and teach good doctrine in his diocese.

From In Love with the Church:

There has always been ignorance. But nowadays the most abysmal ignorance in matters of faith and morals is disguised at times with high sounding terms which appear theological. That is why Christ's commandment to his apostles which we have just heard in the Gospel, Go and teach all nations takes on, if possible, an even more pressing urgency. We cannot be indifferent. We cannot fold our arms and go into seclusion within ourselves. Let us step forward to fight, for God, a great battle of peace, serenity and doctrine.

From The Forge:

The malice of a few and the ignorance of many — this is the enemy of God and of the Church.

—Let us confound the wicked, and enlighten the minds of the ignorant... With God’s help , and with our effort, we will save the world.

From The Furrow:

Loyalty demands a real hunger for formation, because you are moved by a sincere love and you do not wish to run the risk of spreading or of defending, through ignorance, principles or attitudes which are very far from being in accordance with the truth.

Posted 2 months ago #
wljewell - Member

Dear Tarheel, brother whom I hope – nay, believe – is a friend,

I begin with responding to your comments. . . . our wonderful media . . . think if elected officials like Biden and Pelosi speak of the faith then it must be true as they are elected and therefore must be smart. Ho-ho! Testimony to lousy education, intellectual inbreeding, invulnerable ignorance and well-maintained stupidity – and among those ‘smart’ politicians as well as their fog-bound media admirers. Both love their senses of power with barely being able to define the word. But, too, I confess that my post is meant as one more shot at our complacent ‘teachers’ of our faith. You’re a catechist – how much instruction have the ‘teachers’ given you? How much of your informed talent comes from potent Protestant training in your past, and your drive for truth that moved you to ‘come on Home!’? I’d love to give a "wake up call" to our negligent ‘teachers’.

As a catechist I have always felt that ignorance of the faith by catholics is the worst enemy. Amen to that, brother. I have never seen a person knowledgeable of the faith falling victim to a protestant conversion. In my limited experience it always seems to be catholics that are not well "versed" in the faith that do convert to protestantism. But, have we not a two-edged sword of Damocles, here, too? How many lay pewdwellers can give the other poorly catechized become apostates any lesson at all that might steer them away from that wrong path? Also as a catechist I worry if I'm teaching my students well and correctly. Among my points, exactly. And, you mention your growing self-instructive library – I have one, too, now at 22 Bibles and over 400 books, and feel it is not yet even a tenth enough. And I got these so I can learn more about my faith so I can teach it better. For, frankly, how else could you (and I, et al) learn?

In-home catechesis is the very foundation we catechists build on . . . all too often we have to build the "foundation" too. Yes, where is the foundation, indeed, the fine first edifice of adult education, from our ‘teachers’?

I would go on affirming your suspicions that there ought to be ‘more catechesis for the catechists’. It is because there is no ‘power’ (regnant authority) from above, from our ‘teachers’, that others feel less (or, NO) need to hear us out on what we do know. That very on-top silence is used to silence us. And, I think this is an accurate general observation, about all such layfolk-input sites, on your part: Not sure if any of our bishops actually read these posts or not.

At the risk of broadly and lengthily extending this post and topic, let me go on. And, yes, I get angrier over this as I age.

I listen to two persons discuss (as if important) ‘World of Warcraft – an online networking and role playing sort of the equally vacuous Dungeons and Dragons, with bloody combat given greater play. I gently and in friendly repartee comment to them “You guys seriously need a life.” They come back with: “And, what better should we do?” What do I say about, perhaps, prayer, to two who I know avoid prayer as if it were oral surgery. If simple daily prayer, able to be given private and personal time and attention cannot have pull – how so, Sunday Mass?

And, what more could I say, with little ready response?

Later, I am in prayer. It suddenly comes to me no teacher-bishop nor of his instructors-pastors have ever really directly taught me anything. Their homilies tend to be forgettably dry and colorless, of little savor to the soul’s taste or very plainly redolent of the ‘odor of sanctity’.

Without organized, regular, dynamic catechesis – that ‘fine first edifice of adult education’ –
about truth, the faith, virtues, prayer and all the other delights of Catholic Christendom –
without leadership into all that is transcendental –
how is any day different from the day before, one silly game (or workaholism, or TV, or golf, or adultery, if you get my drift into drifting) any more or less distraction to cling to?

Or, finding oneself assuredly able to break the spell of any distraction from God, His Church and His love?

One simple but profoundly affecting verse from the Bible given by accepted authority can make today and every tomorrow a whole different and un-silly game. You and have both experienced that – on our own by and large. But, who sees any authority in me when my authority is silently non-corroborating? If no one with ‘clout’ seems interested and involved with calling the person away from his video game, or other and maybe sinful earthly pursuit – well, has he any recognizable ‘teacher’ he feels compelled to listen for, to listen to?

When I go out, I wear a sizable pectoral crucifix. There is no doubt of the meaning of this most eloquent and dramatic icon. With my aged stature, my long walking stick and general demeanor I could be taken for a high ecclesiastic out for dinner. Some few have stopped me to ask me to pray for them. I smile and promise that I will, if they too will pray for me. I have never been denied. Some even make a gentle bow as I walk past. I try to offer my gentlest but biggest smile to one and all. But, even looking like I just might be a bishop, no one asks one real faith question. Such silence – silence from a possible ‘teacher’ – is just about expected.

And, is this lack of catechesis, or expectation that any offer of catechesis, or even some gentle Good News reports, do we not have a demonstration of what is expected after what are now decades and longer of quite genuine indifference?

Oh, now they are coming out in response to Pelosi and Biden and other dangers from out of politics – but, why have they not come out for me, just to teach me? In apparent response, I have been way ahead of them on the danger in our whole culture, in terms of what they now offer for really too offhanded catechesis. Where were they forty years ago when I was part of the danger? God has been good in being right with me, through thick and thin, revolt and sin, and from embryo through old-timer. Where were His ‘top boys’, huh? Are the ‘teachers’ supposed to take such long recesses?

So, yea, do I accuse them of indifference.

My topic begs ‘what of the catechesis that would make for strong lay apologetical catechists?’ Why has the ancient and large Catholic Church no long-standing and effective system for taking post-Confirmation members not only deeper into their personal life of faith, but able to “go out and make disciples”? Not necessarily to foreign nations, or even the next town over, but simply among their Christ-starved neighbors, some of whom are church-going Catholics? For catechesis begins and ends in evangelization.

Oh, we get wonderful converts – YOU know that. As one priest put it, ‘Catholicism finds converts among the best of other sects and even no sects, while losing lay faithful who just are the most ignorant of the truth-knowing believers.’ How many more would we get with millions of lay evangelists about? How many re-catechizations could be accomplished – could have been accomplished long before political dangers stirred responses?

So, the ‘teachers’ don’t merely exhibit this indifference – they ‘broadcast’ it in their silence. And, the crowds gathered for festival in every Jerusalem effectively hear: “We don’t care, else you’d know if we did.”

Finally, I have dared ordinaries to respond to such posts before, and editors of CE have removed them. This time, removal means I will not return. I’ll take to writing in defiant urgency to my ordinary. In fact, if it comes to that, I am keeping a copy of this topic and post as an initial shot, for at my age I’m getting tired of waiting. (Or, should I become a culture-of-death politician to get his attention?) I’m tired of my barely trained ‘preaching to the choir’ when the celebrant should be in vibrant teaching among his wandering congregation, and interested and eager learners. Still, for what and all we know, just interested, eager learners – like you – like ME!

Posted 2 months ago #
wljewell - Member

lpioch, dear,

You got on while I was typing - badly, as usual.

I am not indifferent - I am just too ignorant to combat all the dreck thrown at me. I could not agree more with Saint Josemaria - LOVE that name! But, can you say that you, Opus Dei member that you are, involved in Catholicism at every level, are prepared for the heavy-duty evangelization that this culture losing itself to death can require? It more or less begs for it, but wants someone who 'speaks with authority' to speak.

I cannot speak with that authority with all my self-preparation I have done. In personal meditation it is sufficient. However, in conversation, I am not sure what response applies to what provocative rejoinder.

My prior post stands for me, in my aggravation as well as in my pleas.

Blessings to you and yours. You, too, Tarheel. May you and I all live forever.

Posted 2 months ago #
lpioch - Moderator

Warren,
Do we have a choice? God has commissioned each and every one of us with the Great Commission. And he has given us His Spirit to fulfill that task. It is not us, but He that works through his tools - through his hands, legs, and mouths (not to mention ears ready to listen).
And if our own weariness/exhaustion/death comes to us through the heavy-duty evangelization, then so be it. What is worth more?

YOU need not speak with authority. Worry not what you are to say, for the Spirit will fill you with the words. Until then, pray and sacrifice and learn so that the Spirit has material to work with within you.

That being said, when you speak to others - one on one (because that is how Christ made his disciples) - truly love them - love them like Christ loves them. When conversation is that between two friends, you need not worry about speaking with authority. You need to speak with love. True charity. The kind of authentic self-giving that comes only through Christ. This says nothing of who you are, but of the great power of God to be able to work through his most lowly and unworthy creatures.

Knowledge does not save. A million books read and understood do not save.
A person saves. One person. We are only tasked with introducing our fellow brothers and sisters to who Christ really is and to the fact that each of us truly are the Father's sons and daughters. He takes care of the rest.

Sometimes we get in God's way by over-thinking.

Posted 2 months ago #
Tarheel - Member

Warren, my friend, I hear all you are saying. I was fortunate in my conversion to the faith to have some good "teachers" of the faith. All were priests wearing the same USAF uniform I was. And over a period of 7 years I finally got baptized, confirmed, received Holy Communion, and got my marriage to wonderful wife (30 years this past September) blessed. Allof this in one night. She is the cradle catholic in the family. And she was my first teacher in the faith. It was her that taught our son's when they were small. And then it was her that urged/pushed me to be a catechist.

You referred to them as pew dwellers my "pet" name for them in pew placeholders. There are way too many of them. And as a convert to the faith I find it hard to fathom how anyone can idly sit by and go through the motions of mass and not feel anything. And it is mind-boggling when I see people not wanting to learn more so they can be ready to defend their beliefs. 1 Peter 3:15 says it very plainly.

As to who is blame for all this? That I cannot answer. But, I feel that weak to non-existent catechesis is to blame. Where it be the bishops, priests, nuns, lay people, or parents we all to some degree are to blame.

Actually my protestant training wasn't all that great. I was one of those "heathen children" that questioned nearly everything my dear Sunday School teachers tried to teach me. I can clearly remember when I was 12 and my Sunday School teacher teaching us that we weren't supposed to like Catholics. Catholics were a pagan religion and didn't pray to Jesus. So we were supposed to hate them and believe that all Catholics were going to hell. Of course me being the "heathen child" I was asked or stated in a questioning way "Didn't Jesus teach us to love one another? And didn't he teach 'Do unto others as they would do unto you'? At that point I was physically removed form class and taken to my father and was told that I had the devil in me because I refused to accept the teachings of God. If my protestant teachings did anything for me they drove to prove that mis-directed man that tried to teach me when I was 12 he was wrong. What I do use my protestant teaching for now is to explain to young people some of the pit falls or traps that protestant kids will use on them.

I ask myself each Sunday after class if I was able to get the point across that our dear Lord wanted me too. Is there something else I should have said? Was I to in-depth for a 12 year old mind? Or was I speaking in a way that made them feel like little children? These questions are some of the driving forces to make me want to learn more.

The main driving force can simply be described as hunger. Hunger to know more. Hunger to understand better what our dear Lord was teaching us. Hunger to find inner peace so I can rest each night. And Warren based on an email I sent you quite some time ago you know very well what I am talking about.

I do hope and pray that our bishops coming forward to correct the Pelosi's and Biden's of this world is an indication that all of our bishops and priests are taking a stronger role in catechesis. And I hope that all catholics will get just a little angry at what these two knuckleheads have stated and will take the time to find the truth.

And the truth is not all that hard to find. Catechesis is nowhere near as strong as it should be (is that a diplomatic way to say it is weak as wet paper?) but the "Truth" has never been hidden from anyone that seeks it out.

Tarheel

Posted 2 months ago #
fishman - Member

where are the priest. where are the bishops. Just as parents are the primary teachers of children they are the primary teachers of parents.

Why don't we have a daily prayer added the prayer's of the faithful for "Those catholics who fail to understand that using birth control is a mortal sin and all other sinners who reject the teachings of the catholic church"?

Why haven't pilosi and biden been excommunicated? Justice Kennedy for that matter?
the chance to teach both them and the community about obedience and the sacredness of life has been missed here because of inaction.

The media can't call someone a catholic who the catholic church says is not.
Why don't we here regularly from the pulpit about the real presence, birth control, abortion , why are we being taught. Instead of trying to give people general principles and let them figure it out for themselves about which politicians you can vote for, why aren't we given concrete examples?

In the end , it is because we are all sinners, and so are our bishops and priests.
In the end we are not holy because we do not want to be.
This is the battle, how can we wage it. How can we have a positive influence on our bishops and priests. When was the last time you asked your priest for a homily or a retreat on chastity and evils of birth control? Or to give examples of a combination of issues in his homily that would make it not a sin to vote for Obama or tell his people that it is a sin and why?

Posted 2 months ago #
wljewell - Member

As I noted at MREINER16's topic 'Another Bishop Speaks':

I think that some ordinaries are realizing the futility of responsive writing and preaching unless it is followed up with instructive work. I think that the numbers of responses from bishops to provocative disinformation has a ring of frustration - 'Is ANYONE listening out there?'

If what comes out of this over-long, hectic election campaign, full of its ignorant and mendacious quasi-Catholic and anti-Catholic rhetoric and propaganda, is a renewal of intra-evangelization in powerful, insightful, apologetical catechesis, we will have gained far more than we can lose.

Posted 2 months ago #
noelfitz - Member

Warren

You call for "a renewal of intra-evangelization in powerful, insightful, apologetical catechesis".

I agree fully with you. This evangelization of modern people is needed in the US and also in other parts of the world.

Catholics should stick together and become stronger in the faith.

I am perturbed by the huge number of "Fallen Away" and "Cafeteria Catholics".

I have no problem with Catholics disagreeing and holding different views, as long as we remain in agreement on essentials.

Hate filled condemnations are totally unchristian. Catholics are not evangelicals who go to Mass.

I hear that up to 30% of cradle Catholics abandon the faith in the US. I admit there are large numbers of converts and Latinos keeping up numbers.

Why is the Church losing so many? There should be a serious and open debate about this and thought should be given on how to keep Catholics faithful.

As a first step, perhaps we could all pray more.

Posted 2 months ago #
Tarheel - Member

Why are so many people leaving the faith? My response is weak catechesis. Or those Catholics that think and act that catechesis ends when you are confirmed.

As a convert to Te faith, I feel inadequate many times because I don't know as much as I want or need to. And learning more about catholicism is a very rewarding, mind-opening, heart and soul fulfilling experience!

Of course I would be happy if pew placeholders would listen to the readings and pay attention to all parts of the mass. That would be a start in the right direction.

Posted 2 months ago #
wljewell - Member

I have been re-reading about the Catholic Evidence Guild that was a very devout and dedicated project of Frank Sheed and Maisie Ward. For one thing, though it had ‘publisher’ credentials through Sheed and Ward, it was a lay ministry of apologetical street preaching toward evangelization. (“Was”? still is! – see: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea3.asp about London, New York; GUAM? About which see: http://www.cegguam.org/)

Just for the record, I list the New York guild address:
Catholic Evidence Guild, P.O. Box 55, Larchmont, New York 10538.

God forgive my arch skepticism, but you don't think C.E.G's lack-of-chapter near you or me or whomever around CE here is due to resistance from ordinaries, do you? NAAH! But, even if clericalism still reigns - think of a miter with all the bells and whistles - maybe we can at least be more ready for sounding as if we had Peter 3:15 taken to heart, if and when asked, confronted or needed to submit to God’s loving salvation.

A New York guild member, one Patrick Sweeney who nicknames himself for Amazon purposes ‘extreme catholic’ provides an Amazon ‘Listmania!’ of initial reading for Catholic personal development. Of course, he starts off with the Bible and the Catechism, and the list isn’t so extensive as other lists I’ve seen. His list is at:
http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Catholic-Reading-Evidence-Guild/lm/11EEIDUQ4Y5PC

You can Google ‘Catholic Evidence Guild’ if you want more.

Posted 2 months ago #

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